In my years here at Leerburg, I have seen dozens, maybe hundreds of posts regarding people and their dogs getting charged or attacked by loose dogs.

We have given a lot of people advice on methods to protect their pets ( and themselves ) ranging from pepper spray to firearms to just avoiding that area again.

And I'm going to rant a bit here - most of us are law abiding citizens exercising our freedoms, and I for one am simply fed up with idiot dog owners that are thoughtless and irresponsible and simply unwilling to expend any energy into controlling their dogs - and thereby endangering people that just want to walk their dog in safety .

And I'm completely sick of hearing that we should walk our dogs elsewhere - *WE* are not breaking the law, *WE* are not endangering others, and we have the right to go where we want and do what we want, within the limits of the law.
*WE* are not the problem - they are. And it's not even about the dog, it's about the *OWNERS* - they are breaking the law, not us.

These problem owners, the irresponsible and the careless, they are the ones that need to change their behavior, because it puts people and their pets at risk and they need to be held accountable for their behavior.
It's as simple as that.

Call Animal Control.
Call the Police or Sheriff.
Sue them in Small Claims court. But for Gods sake, take the battle to *them*!

Make it your goal to have a safe environment for the enjoyment of you and your pets, and make these losers pay for their behavior - *you* are in the right, and they are in the wrong.

I agree with everything you said here Will, but the problem here in the UK at least, is two pronged:

First off, you have the incessant stream of pikey bred pups who are being churned out by these criminals who sell the pups through the free ads for a £100 to anyone that wants them, including kids who want, in most cases, Staffies and Rotts, to strut about the streets with purely to intimidate, the dog wardens, RSPCA and the Police never deal with the problem because they are scared to approach them, therefore, while there are stroppy cows like me who don't give a toss and make a point of walking at them, and make them get the **** out of my way, (not when I have the dogs with me!) there are a lot of people, old dears, people with kids etc, who empower these pond life by giving them right of way, these people have no protection from the bodies that have the law on their side to enforce that law, but are too spineless to enforce it.

The other problem group is the one that my sweet hippy of a sister belongs to; she has a foul KCC, that has no manners and who regularly pisses other dogs/joggers/cyclists off in the parks of Nottingham because she uses a flexi at full length, and thinks people are awfully rude and aggressive to him because he is 'friendly' and likes to charge up to folk yapping like a demon to say 'hello' - drives me INSANE!!

I had to insist this week that we would meet them at my parents house for the xmas present swap because this damn dog takes huge liberties with my lot, and while the Pointers tolerate him or go to their bed to escape him, the Boerboels want to put him in his place, two ten stone Boerboels and one 3lb Cav = a certain trip to the vet before christmas and I had to make the point to her that her suggestion of 'chucking them all out in the garden to 'play' at my house, will end badly, the BB's won't need to bite him, they only have to stomp on him to break the little shit in half; she is a highly educated and articulate person, but a totally clueless and intractable dog owner, so again, I completely agree with everything you say, but while people can't and won't be educated in the acceptable ways of dog ownership, I can see why some folks go out of their way to avoid certain areas where idiots roam with their dogs.

And that is a damn shame.

Here in Quebec we have laws in place but not enforced. So animals are consided as furniture (bien meuble). How can a table cause trouble? or have pain?
For that we are still the puppy mill capital (shame as it is not illegal)
Animal control will come 9 to 5 on working day. So if you work they can't get you. Call the cops they will refer to animal control.

My town as animal law but really it is a joke. In the farm area they just tell you that it is too hard to enforce. And the is no lw for livestock. So we have so jerk who will let sheep, goat or horses roam on their property. But no fences so off they go in the street or on other property. They can only get fine IF the animal get caugth on a numbered street. So my street is not numbered.

Some are working hard to change the situation here but it is not moving fast. For us to here that dogs are welcome in some stores other then pet store is unknown.

Will, I couldn't have put it any better than you did and the same thoughts have been boiling up in my mind for ages also. We don't live in the country. We live in a very nice neighborhood surrounded by other nice, but older, neighborhoods. And yet, we found that is no guarantee that people and their dogs are going to be well behaved. I've run across more strays and been charged and even attacked more times than I can remember. Our three-year old Mal has always been fearful and aggressive with other dogs and she is just starting over the last year to trust us and be more under control around other animals. I'm so sick of having to change my routes just to avoid idiots. It's gotten to the point where I now have taken the attitude that "dang it, it's my street too and I have a right to walk my dog in it." Lately, I've stopped backing away or reversing course and just challenged the other dog by standing my ground, calmly, putting my girl in a sit, and, once everything has settled down, walking past the stray instead. I know I'm needlessly putting my dog at risk doing this but I'm just tired of being bullied by idiots and their out of control dogs. On the other hand, it has worked out to be great training opportunities for our Mal and she has responded admirably.

Appreciate you sharing what I'm sure many others of us also feel.

I see where you are coming from Will. I agree that the law abiding dogs and people should be able to walk where ever they would like, but some people just are not up for the challenge of confronting loose animals. I give the advise to change routes for people who may be old, disabled, or don't yet have dogs that could reliably sit through that sort of distraction. Also, some people would rather just avoid that situation all together. When I walk Tanner with my mom, she has this crazy "up 1 block, over 2, cross the street in the middle, go 3 blocks west on the left side, then back the same way" route to avoid the dogs that can reach the sidewalk on their tie outs. She wasn't able to safely confront these dogs while walking Tanner and made adjustments to still be able to get him out and about. I don't think advice can be the same for every dog, owner or situation, so a multitude of options need to be presented. I do believe that you are up for the challenge though Lord help the loose dog (and owner) that find themselves charging Will Rambeau "grin:

I agree with you 110% Will. I live in town and have had my dog attacked on a public path with a posted leash ordinance. I dealt with the resulting reactivity for almost two years. Since then I have made it a mission to avoid places where loose dogs are allowed, and I am happy to be a complete jerk when I see loose dogs.

I use the local public park most of the time, and I guess my dog is scary-looking enough that other folks with dogs tend to leash-up when they see us. Good. Some don't, but they stay away. When they haven't I have called the police and the police DO show up and ticket them.

The last straw for me, when I finally stopped just avoiding and actively and consistently started calling the police, was the day I encountered a man NAPPING on the ground in the middle of the park while his loose Rotti wandered around harassing people. It was a level of "stupid" too much, and finally pushed me over the edge. In the last couple of years, the number of loose dogs in my area has decreased significantly. Apparently, all those fines worked

I agree with you. Unfortunately It has come to a point with me that if I want to give my dog exercise I have to walk past places where there may be a dog. I carry I stick a knife and spray, and phone. My dog depends on me for everything the most important are to feed to exercise and keep her safe and I am most certainty willing to do so at the cost of another dog even though it is the Owners fault that the dog was put in that situation.

Being deployed has, unfortunately, given me a lot of experience in dealing with loose dogs. My escalation of force goes in this order:

Strong voice correction, with maybe a thrown rock in there for good measure.
Warning to owner, if present, that the dog will be injured if it attacks.
26" ASP Baton to the face. This usually gets them to back down.
9MM warning shot in the air, if there is time, with a quick second shot into the dog if it keeps coming.

I hate to kill a dog, especially when it is just doing it's presumed duty, but it happens sometimes.

Considering a non-working dog situation; it's my opinion that if the police or animal control agencies are not going to protect my right to walk safely down a public street with my dog, I will gladly assume that protection role and do whatever is necessary within the boundaries of the law to keep my dog from harm. If that involves injuring or killing a loose or poorly confined dog, so be it.

Warning: if you carry a firearm when you are with your dog, you should not only be trained to safely handle that firearm yourself, but also train that dog to accept gunfire without aggression. The last thing you want is your dog attacking you after firing a shot in self defense That makes for a bad day, and I have seen it more than once.

As harsh as it is David, I’m glad you posted with your perspective. Well said.

I wanted to respond as well but feared the day to day reality of truly taking matters into your own hands may not be well received.

 Quote: Will Rambeau

...for Gods sake, take the battle to *them*!

Our small community is far from perfect but we have very few issues with loose dogs. I believe it's because this statement very much reflects the majority of attitudes around here and guides our actions. As much as I love dogs, I have an equally strong indignation for irresponsible owners.

My elderly father in law and I even went to battle recently, to the successful outcome of his small dog now being under control when my boys are around.

We have an old SOB who owns a bunch of land surrounding our community and ranges cattle. A dog so much as sets foot on his property, they don't walk off. He's had some practice, the man does not miss. Many, otherwise good dogs, have died because their careless owners chose not to fix a fence or allowed their dog to run unattended. And while I think he's a tad over the top, he has this right and exercises it to the full extent of the law.

And even though there are formal laws here, I've never seen an animal control officer in our community, nor the police on a dog related matter (we’ve been here 23 years). People move to our community because they can own dogs here and every second house has one, all breeds, sizes and temperaments. Little old ladies and young children safely walk their dogs without sticks and bear spray.

It’s interesting, there’s been a few situations where we've had to help harness a dog that's gotten loose and causing a ruckus in the neighborhood. The pups are given the same respect we'd give any of our own dogs but in returning them to their owners, nothing is held back - warning them of the dangers and letting them know how irresponsible their actions are. It's not so much a matter of "psyching out dogs", dogs are dogs. It's the owners that need to feel the repercussions of their actions. I've rarely seen the same dog loose twice. And strange as it may sound, people that have problems containing their dogs don't tend to reside out here long.

As individuals, we can make a difference. And there certainly is power in numbers. And while I'm in no way advocating any kind of vigilantism, or God forbid, the actions of the rancher, but where reasonable people are concerned, there's a lot we can do to take the laws into our hands rather than just complain about the authority's lack of enforcement of them.

Believe in the goal and don't allow for or accept the excuses of the irresponsible owners. Stop worrying about people's feelings, dog's lives and people's safety is at stake. It takes work (anything worthwhile does) and you can't just turn a blind eye, hoping someone else will take care of it.

Sure, its conflict, on a very passionate level, but it's a conflict that can produce results and a battle that will result in peace.

Good rant Will!!

 Quote: David Winners

9MM warning shot in the air....

I'm sorry but isn't this an inherently dangerous thing to do (not to mention illegal in many places)? I don't claim to be a firearms expert, but I have a familiarity with them and have taken firearms classes and have been taught all my life that a bullet fired into the air can indeed cause injury, possibly even fatal injury (and of course property damage), on its way down.

If I was ever in a position to feel the need to fire a warning shot, I believe I would fire it into the ground, not the air. In any event, using a firearm against an attacking dog would be a last resort. In a sudden, adrenalin-producing situation like that, I would be terribly afraid of hitting my own dog or an innocent passer-by.