Hello,

I have a problem with my dog crowding me during heeling. One of those things I tolerated during his first training sessions as a pup. He's my first dog I've trained formally and I'll never make this mistake again! It's gradually gotten better over time, but he still does it. To correct it I usually bump him out with my knee and say 'move it'/'fuss' then praise. However, I've been doing this for awhile with no great success. What are some other methods that can be used to correct this? I'd like some suggestions.

Thanks,
Jackie and "Treck"
G Maximus von den wilden Rabbits BH, HCT-s, CGC
http://www.geocities.com/jackiem1982

Jackie,

Are you heeling in a straight line while bumping him? If yes, he may not understand what is it you expect from him. Try heeling in a circle, counter-clockwise, starting with a wide circle and narrowing it as you walk. You can still use your knee. Once he is in the correct position, praise by “good fuss”. When you see the desired results, switch to a gradual serpentine pattern and if he still crowds as you turn right, make a sharp left turn by pivoting on your left foot and bumping him with your right knee. You need to move fast during this exercise and make it real upbeat and happy.

Another point: what kind of a motivator are you using—food, ball? Make sure it’s in the right position.

I use a ball/tug as his motivator and carry it in different positions: held in left hand up by my shoulder, under chin, behind me in pouch, under arm, or thrown on ground somewhere and we heel past it then he's released to go get it. I haven't noticed much, if any, difference to his crowding depending on where his toy is.

Jackie-
I have this same problem that I am working on. If your dog has a very high drive then you may want to switch to food for correcting this as it will be easier to guide the dog into proper position with food and reward for it. The ball may be putting him/her over the top. Use pieces of hotdogs.
Remember that the dog knows exactly where that ball is on you even when you think it is hidden.
Good luck.
Pat

As soon as the dog touches you make a hard left turn and bump with your right knee. Never reward when the dog is touching you. When the dog is heeling in the correct position ,release the dog before the reward. Is the dog rapping and forging also? Where does the dog always get its reward?

Renee: "Are you heeling in a straight line while bumping him?"

I bump him during straight aways and during turns. He usually crowds less during turns.

David: "As soon as the dog touches you make a hard left turn and bump with your right knee."

He touches me almost all the time. Should I just continually make left turns?

"Never reward when the dog is touching you."

Apparently, I've made this mistake in the past. Because I think that he thinks crowding is what I want. I no longer ever reward him when he's bumping me.

"When the dog is heeling in the correct position ,release the dog before the reward."

What do you mean by this?

"Is the dog rapping and forging also?"

What is rapping? And no, he does not forge.

"Where does the dog always get its reward?"

Do you mean in what position is he in when he is rewarded? If so, in the middle of heeling, or when I've stopped and he's sitting in heel position.

This is where people will disagree with me but I dont much like having the reward up near my face or high. When I say to release the dog before the reward I mean give the release command then reward. Lets say you have the reward under your arm and you are heeling and then you decide to reward. Your dog sees your arm go up and then it crowds or gets out of positon some way and then it gets its reward. The last thing the dog was doing just before it got its reward was incorrect.To solve this, when the dog is correct give the release command then the reward. Not at the same time. First release then reward, so there is no body language for the dog to anticipate. When I ask where does it get its reward I mean does the dog have to crowd to get it. So what Im asking is , is the dog anticipating the reward and crowding to get to it? As far as left turns and crowding. The main thing isnt how far you heel forward but how far you can heel forward correctly. If you have to keep making left turns to keep the dog off then do it. Make sure your timing makes it evident that the dog touching you creates the hard left.

Jackie: “He usually crowds less during turns. … Should I just continually make left turns?”

He bumps less during turns because it’s simply not comfortable for him. But if you continually make left turns you won’t get far... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That’s why I suggested circles or arcs.

Jackie: “What is rapping? And no, he does not forge.”

My guess is that David means “wrapping”??? If he is wrapping then he was never taught the correct position to begin with. It sounds like he simply doesn’t know where he is supposed to be and bumping him with your knee is not gonna help at this point. It can be useful as a reminder, though, but first you need to go back and teach him the correct position. Here’s what I would do:

Get a ball with a string. Put the loop around your left thumb. Hold the ball in your left hand, lift your arm as high and back as you can, bent at the elbow, so that your hand is at your armpit, twist your hand so that the back of your hand is toward you, thumb down. The idea is for the dog to see the ball, and not your hand. Try it, if you find this extremely uncomfortable, you are on the right track, lol. Start heeling in a circle, probably best if you start with a tight circle and widen it gradually. When the dog is in the right position while he is looking at the ball, praise, drop the ball (hold the string), play tug for a few seconds, out, and back to heeling. If done correctly, you won’t even have to bump him.

If it works after a few sessions, go to the serpentine pattern, otherwise you may start having problems with lagging. Keep the ball in the same position.

When I say left turn Im not talking about just turning to the left, Im talking about a quick 90 degree turn to the left and correcting straight out with your right knee. If that doesnt work I would suggest a 360 degree left pivot chopping your feet and knees while at the same time keeping tension on the lead so the dog cant escape it, then heeling forward again. In other words crowding back at the dog in an extreme way. The most important thing is the dog should make an association with it touching you and you crowding back. The dog should feel as if it is responsible for what just happened.This can be a very effective method in your dog actually learning not to crowd.

More testimony to the fact that if the foundation is not correct, there will be problems down the road. I suppose in the perfect world, there would be no problem solving. I like Renee's suggestions, I used to turn a pinch collar inside out on my left thigh for corrective measures. Since Renee's suggestion, I will do it her way.