Ed Frawely wrote:

 Quote:

If your interest is a straight S&R dog (not cadver) you should start to train your puppy in foot step tracking. Then when he is 12 to 13 month old switch him to tracking through drive (TTD). DO NOT DO AIR SCENTING UNTIL THE PUP HAS 60 TTD TRACKS.

Hi Ed,

I'm wondering why you suggest starting a puppy in foot step tracking.

The team that I belong to has a couple of members who have been to Gary Murray seminars over the past few years and we have begun starting the puppies in the TTD method right from the start.

So far it seems to be producing very reliable tracking dogs.

We also introduce air scent during the first year but the main focus is on tracking. We aren't able to get much tracking done between January and March due to the snow (waist deep last year!) so we introduce the refind sequence to the dogs during that time period in parking lots and places where the snow is trampled such as school yards.

As always, I'm trying to expand my knowledge so I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Natalie

I would be interested too. We start with airscenting and then TTD, no footstep tracking.

I have made a concious decision to start with tracking (and the approach looks like what I have read about TTD, but have not been to seminar).... but not wait a whole year for airscenting; with a victim at the end of my track - if a "not planned" crosswind allows the dog to airscent why wouldnt I let it happen?

I do try to set up so the dog tracks/trails all the way.

..I am also very interested in SIAB approach to increase track precision with focus on the human scent element and ensuring

Also what is this about SAR but not cadaver since most SAR dogs get crosstrained?

Originally posted by Nancy Jocoy:
..I am also very interested in SIAB approach to increase track precision with focus on the human scent element and ensuring
and ensuring that I have a better idea of where the human scent is strongest

Sorry forgot to complete - con call, email, multitasking .....

The question on young dog tracking is a common one. There are a couple of points that need to be understood:

1- If a dog is introduced to air scenting too soon it will never be a good tracking dog.

When these dogs run into a problem on a track they will automatically lift their head to air scent. If the actual victim or victims track is down wind this often results in a lost tracks.

2- When a dog has learned to track before he is trained to air scent ( minimum of 60 training tracks) he will automatically look for a lost track on the ground. These dogs have a much higher success rate at finding lost tracks – which translates into finding more victims or suspects.

The RCMP in Canada has been training S&R and police dogs in TTD since 1935 - this is their information and I have only found it to be accurate.

3- The RCMP has also found that young dogs who are started in TTD before 12 to 13 months of age have a problem focusing and retaining the training. In addition young pups don't have the maturity to work through serious distractions.

Can young dogs do TTD? Yes - but there is no evidence that early training results in an increased level of performance in later life.

Footstep tracking involved rewards (food or the scent of food) all along the track so it's easier to keep the dogs motivated and focused. It's also a slower form of tracking and young dogs do much better in this discipline.

I hope this clarifies things.

This does make sense answers 1 and 2 I had already bought into and I see more people going that way also because starting off in prey drive with runaways often creates problems later when running long problems. A lot of folks seem to be working more with the hunt drives..but now I am in over my head with info I am learning and am NOT knowlegable on, just familiar with.

Item 3 -- make sense....need to cogitate on it some more. We are taking our time - want to iron out and bomproof other behaviors before unsnapping that lead in the open. I am printing more articles on TTD - not sure what to do if crosswind causes dog to pick up on the airscent......if that is good thing or should be avoided.

Sometimes it is hard to remember that my puppy is still a puppy - she is the most serious, "adult" and focused puppy I have ever had.....maybe that is Mink coming out....who knows?

Thanks for your input Ed.

I will need to mull this over...just got back from a 2 day training exercise with a nearby GSAR team.

Natalie

3- The RCMP has also found that young dogs who are started in TTD before 12 to 13 months of age have a problem focusing and retaining the training. In addition young pups don't have the maturity to work through serious distractions.

There is an old saying among knowledgeable dog trainers. you can teach a dog twice as much from 12-14 months as you can during their entire first year
Early puppy work should be concerned with drive developemnt not skill development. Asking a baby to work is just plain impatience on the part of the handler.

I am a bit confused and really am trying to sort things out.

Most of schutzhund does not rely on hunt drives(correct me if I am wrong) and it is my understanding that building this latent hunt drive is more important in creating a good SAR dog than building the prey drive which is the focus of schutzhund drive buidling excercises. ....and that relying to extensively on prey drive often results in dogs who wash out on a typical 3-4 our search pattern as they are expecting that visual reinforcement to complete the chase....

The TTD tracks we have done have been extremely motivational, much more so than footstep tracking, with far less of the obedience component. I am struggling to think of a better way to build the hunt drive than this.

I am going to stop here as I would like to hear your perceptions on this. I know that a LOT of things have been changing in the way SAR dogs are trained over the past 5 years.......

Sorry for asking a dumb question, but what does TTD stand for?