 Training question
#356286 - 02/28/2012 03:05 PM |
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Imagine that a certain dog has amongst its repertoire the following behaviours:
Behaviour A: Difficulty 9 (0-10) and not yet completly understood.
Behaviour B: Difficulty 4 (0-10) and well understood.
In the middle of a training session directed at improving behaviour A and after a few attempts that I could not bridge and reinforce, I "unexpectadely" ask for behaviour B. He does not do it. I ask him again and again. By the 3rd attempt I get him to do behaviour B.
What should I do?
Bridge and not reward him because I am aiming at behaviour A?
Bridge and give him a low value reward?
Bridge and give him a normal reward?
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Re: Training question
[Re: Jose Miguel Gome ]
#356288 - 02/28/2012 03:11 PM |
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What is A? What is B?
Why did you "unexpectedly" ask for B if you're working on a different, very difficult behavior?
Please don't be so vague; it makes giving a credible response almost impossible.
Sadie |
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Re: Training question
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#356290 - 02/28/2012 04:02 PM |
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What is A? What is B?
Why did you "unexpectedly" ask for B if you're working on a different, very difficult behavior?
Please don't be so vague; it makes giving a credible response almost impossible.
A is to go over an obstacle 5 meters away from me and come back; B is to do a 360º leap in the same place.
The reason why I asked that is a very good question... I'm not sure. I think it was to see if he was still engaged and with drive (I was beginning to suspect that he was not). I prepared him for behaviour A. Correct placement and obstacle in sight, but then, when I had the feeling that something was not right I asked him behaviour B.
When he missed the 360º leap, I insisted. So, now that he did it, what should I do?
The reason I did not specify is because I would like to apply this information to many different scenarios. For example, I could have the same doubt if A was to retrieve an object and B to roll over.
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Re: Training question
[Re: Jose Miguel Gome ]
#356292 - 02/28/2012 07:34 PM |
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I would post a new OP. The right answer (such as pattern training to be avoided, for example) can be applied to many scenarios anyway. But the answer is far less likely to be right if no one knows what we're talking about. 
For example, in the "nose oriented dog" thread: once all the pertinent information comes out, the appropriate responses change.
I want to read exactly what is happening in normal words.
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Re: Training question
[Re: Jose Miguel Gome ]
#356294 - 02/28/2012 07:34 PM |
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PS
"The reason why I asked that is a very good question... I'm not sure. I think it was to see if he was still engaged and with drive"
I'd be asking "Have I completely confused the dog?" Then "where do I back up to to un-confuse the dog?"
But I would still like to read exactly what is happening, with no "behavior A and behavior B."
I'd like to read how each command was taught, for example, and how reliable it is when it's isolated from other commands.
I don't want the confusion of having to read " A is so and so" and then go back to the O.P. to see whether A is the "well understood" command or the new and not yet understood command.
Maybe none of my questions make sense! But I won't know until I can actually read what is happening.
I'm old. Humor me. 
JMO!
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Re: Training question
[Re: Jose Miguel Gome ]
#356300 - 02/28/2012 07:34 PM |
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Connie gave you some very good advice about how to ask your question. I would like to say a couple of things about specific items in your last post.
You can mix commands in some scenarios, but not in all. If I were working on obstacles (complex and difficul behavior}, I would not give an unexpected command. Consistency is key in early training phases(really all stages, but especially in initial phases).
If you don't think the dog is engaged, break away and play tug, or whatever you do to engage the dog. Give him a little break, then get back in drive and either go back to the behavior you want to work on, or move on to something entirely different.
To answer your original question, reward any behavior that is correct; do not mark incorrect behavior; BUT, as previously stated, I think it was the wrong time to command something entirely diferent from what you were working on.
Sadie |
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Re: Training question
[Re: Jose Miguel Gome ]
#356307 - 02/28/2012 11:33 PM |
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"I prepared him for behaviour A. Correct placement and obstacle in sight, but then, when I had the feeling that something was not right I asked him behaviour B".
For some dogs, in particular those that aren't fully trained, each behavior can be situational.
You prepared him for A. You set up for A. The dog saw A and then you tossed in the confusion of asking for B.
The dog wasn't proofed for that situation.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Training question
[Re: Jose Miguel Gome ]
#356308 - 02/28/2012 11:35 PM |
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Don't mix commands (seperate actions) until after he has completely learned all the commands involved, or you will confuse him. If your working on one behavior, stick with that behavior until he knows it, then you can mix the two. Doing a random command in training while trying to learn another one is just confusing. Don't forget to give your dog a mental break once in a while too, dogs get mental fatigue and need to clear their heads.
Cassy & Leo enjoying a nap.
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Re: Training question
[Re: Jose Miguel Gome ]
#356310 - 02/29/2012 12:03 AM |
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Jose this also depends on the age & breed of dog(s). some dogs are more athletic than others. then age plays a big factor . it's not fair to ask a dog to do something he may not be able to perform. at 56 years old i cant long jump like a 21 year. i could try, but it wouldn't be pretty.
(dogs will try even when they are not physicality up to it.)
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Re: Training question
[Re: john axe ]
#356316 - 02/29/2012 11:18 AM |
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Jose this also depends on the age & breed of dog(s). some dogs are more athletic than others. then age plays a big factor . it's not fair to ask a dog to do something he may not be able to perform. at 56 years old i cant long jump like a 21 year. i could try, but it wouldn't be pretty.
(dogs will try even when they are not physicality up to it.)  HEY! I can still jump a fence and I'm 66. Gotta admit though that the landing on the other side REALLY sucks.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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