Well, I wrote a nice long detailed post, and poof! it was gone as I hit the submit button. Grr. So this is going to be brief, because I've already spent too much time here...but I need HELP! Last resort type help. I have fostered before, done much research, watched the basic videos, etc., yet this thing is baffling me. We took in a dog to foster for a shelter several weeks ago. He'd been there several months, and they were full up, so they were going to have to put him down if they couldn't find a foster home. So, I'm trying to help him, but it seems I'm making things worse. I realize it takes a while for them to settle in, and I've had dogs hesitate to potty before, but this guy is different. In addition to not wanting to potty in the yard, which is STILL a problem, he WILL pee whenever I approach him, look at him, or touch him. No matter where we are. He'll just squat and pee. I can't believe that I scare him THAT much!?! And...it may be submissive urination, but I'm not a big hulking manly man dominant type. Quite the opposite...I'm a small girly girl, not naturally dominant, so I don't understand at all this peeing every time I'm around him. The goal, of course, was to help him get adopted. Housebreaking is apparently a problem, especially now that he's peeing every time I'm around him, which, as a stay at home mom, tends to be pretty much all the time. Need help, or he's got to back to the shelter, because I can't have him in the house, cleaning up pees all day. :-(

I have just a sec right now, but you'll get help.

This has been WEEKS?

If it had been a few days, I'd say in response to "he WILL pee whenever I approach him, look at him, or touch him, " don't approach, look at, or touch him.

"And...it may be submissive urination, but I'm not a big hulking manly man dominant type." This is not in any way unusual. Do you loom over, make eye contact, get close quickly .... any of these?

He's been checked for a UTI, right? What else are you seeing in the way of submissive/anxious behavior?

What have you done about the outdoor potty? (I'm trying to find out if he was forced via garage-life, constant kenneling, etc., to go indoors.)

Do you have a video clip to link the board folks to?

Ok, will try to answer as best as I can...we've had this dog here for almost 4 weeks. This pee thing whenever I approach is, oddly, a newer problem, which is why it puzzles me so much. He'd already been here at least 2 weeks before he started that. On the other hand, when he first came here, he didn't really pay any attention to me at all...pretty much I didn't exist to him, in a way, you know? Then as I became "more important" to him, he became very submissive to me, and that was nice and all, till he started peeing, and I got peed on several times, too (caught in the cross fire!) when he went belly up, then peed. When he first came to us, he was WILD with excitement every time anyone would approach him, and he'd nearly knock over his crate in the process, and he was LOUD. So I started approaching him slowly, only when he was quiet and relaxed, and I wouldn't look at him or make any sudden moves, so he would be better able to stay queit and relaxed. To this day, I do the same thing. Whenever I approach him, I do so indirectly, quietly, and slowly, and the pee thing is an added reason why I do this. I stop whenever he starts losing control of himself.

This morning, outside, I called him to me, and he approached, but as soon as he got to me, he peed. We did that little routine 4 times. I tried to not look, not tower over him, but he still peed. As for the UTI, no, I'd have to get the shelter to get him checked out, and the thought did occur to me as a possibility, but because he will pee whenever I'm too close, or whatever, and doesn't seem to be in any pain or anything, I kind of thought this was more of a behavior issue than health issue.

Submissive behaviors include head down when approaching, if he's barking at someone I can just say "hey", and he'll put his ears and tail down again and look at me in that "ok, sorry" type look, he goes belly up pretty easily, and then there's, of course, the pee. He does seem to have separation anxiety, and he does whine ALOT to get attention.

Being in the shelter 4+ months, I'm sure didn't help, but they told me he wasn't housebroken at all. I never saw a mess in his kennel, but I'm sure there must have been, for them to tell me he wasn't housebroken. We have no idea of his lifestyle before this, because he was found as a stray, and never claimed. However, he does seem to be quite comfortable outside, and was always almost reluctant to come in, aside from wanting to be around us. My goal originally was to get him to potty on command, so we did the crating and tethering thing, and taking him outside regularly, but he never did go potty then. Lately, because of the accidents, I've had him spend more time outside alone, so for now, anyway, there's no hope of getting him to even at the very least, recognize that when I take him outside, he's supposed to potty, much less, on command. And any time he decides to hold it, whenever we walk him, that's the time he goes. So, it's still possible for him to NEVER go in the yard, if he doesn't want to...aside from the peeing he does when I am around.

No, on the video, not sure what you mean there, even?

I meant a clip of submissive demeanor, but you've described it pretty well now.

" .... we did the crating and tethering thing, and taking him outside regularly, but he never did go potty then .... So, it's still possible for him to NEVER go in the yard, if he doesn't want to... "

I don't understand. He has to go eventually. If he's tethered to you, and you take him out every hour (and of course every time he starts to lift a leg or squat), he has to eventually go outside, and then party/reward/praise.


Also, about this (following), was it a game? I'm trying to get a clear picture of what he may have perceived when he was called to you again and again (or was it recall work?):

"This morning, outside, I called him to me, and he approached, but as soon as he got to me, he peed. We did that little routine 4 times."




PS

Luckily, we have several fosters/rescuers on board here. I'm trying to get a good clear picture, but others will help too .... I know you want this dog back inside and not outdoors alone.

Ok, to clarify...if we take him out for a walk, that's when he'll go potty, pee and poop, no problem. Otherwise, he'll hold it as long as possible...and he can hold it a LONG time, so in other words, with a daily walk, it is entirely possible for him to never go potty in our yard at all. He will hold it that long. But, when we've been unable, due to sickness, weather, or other odd things coming along, that's when we've had potties in the house or crate, or, when he will finally break down and potty in the yard. He will also start to go, and if something distracts him, another dog, or odd sound, or even me (sneezing even!), he will stop, and then not go at all. :-( Also, he doesn't lift his leg in the house, and in general, he hardly gives any notice at all before going. This guy will not sniff, circle, squat, lift leg, whatever, he just will stop where he is and start going...he's even peed on himself while in a sitting position, or laying down. Yes. Very hard to know that's what he's about to do. But the circumstances for that have always been "me" around him, somehow making him nervous? But, realistically speaking, with young kids, I can't offer him a perfectly stress-free, calm environment. But mostly, walks are when he potties, and he seems to "save it up" if possible.

And the thing about this morning, calling him to me, was kind of an experiment. I knew he would come, but I wondered, if I had him come to me instead of me approaching him, would he still pee? I did it in the least threatening way possible, and he did pee. So that was part of why I posted. If he'll pee, even when I set things up to be as non-threatening as possible, I don't know what more I can do. I just did it multiple times because I was attempting to change my posture a bit, to try to see if trying some other posture would make him more comfortable with me. That's all.

I hope that clarifies. Yes, ideally, I'd like to fix whatever's wrong here, get him living inside with us, pottying outside, and generally, getting him to the point where he's more adoptable.

Maybe his old owner tought him not to poop or pee in the back yard of there house. That could be why he goes when on his walk and holds it till then. Did you ever try to do your marker training for the potty command while you were on a walk and work on getting it on command. Then move to trying to get it to the back yard. Have you tried taking him for short walks every hour or two so that he goes in a timely manner. see if when he stops holding it all day the peeing around you stops.

Thanks Dillon, some good ideas there. :-)

When he comes to you, do you give him a juicy piece of meat, or do you just praise him?

In answer to your question, I would do both. Either way, he'd pee.

I'm sorry I didn't update months ago, but this dog has since been adopted.