Most of you probably know that they now offer genetic testing for DM.

I know some breeders are questioning the validity of the tests and they want more studies done before they start testing their dogs.

I have been talking to my vet and have started testing my girls.

But here is the rub.

Lets say a couple year old dog tests as being at risk for DM. Doesn't mean the dog will get it and it generally appears late in life. DM is also normally a diagnosis made by excluding other disorders.

So what do you feel is the right thing for a breeder to do?

Discuss!

http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/DM/testDM.htm

Wow, I didn't know yet that they were at the stage to be able to say (sometimes) VERY LIKELY and VERY UNLIKELY.

I thought it was far more vague.

Good topic!

At least GSDs aren't at the top of the list at 70%. But still 40% is a concern for breeders to consider.

Since in many cases it appears that it is a much later in life issue...it doesn't seem to be as important of a concern as HD is when considering breeding stock. It is also a bigger MAYBE as opposed to the HD roulet.

So I think that I would be far more concerned with the bigger picture of the more likely traits then a big maybe trait in the dogs being bred.

I think that if you start making yourself totally crazy with this being a huge factor in breeding stock, then over a pretty short period of time, we will be narrowing down the gene pool to a very small group of dogs & thereby predisposing the dogs to even greater risks of certain line deficencies ie: the obvious ones but also temperment, workability etc. I feel it will ultimately be detromental to the breed to jump the gun on this.

Until they can be more certain about which dogs really WILL get DM or at least a realistic % of dogs that will & can back up the claims, as opposted to just a maybe, I think it is something to keep in the back of your mind when picking breeding stock, but not at this time in the forefront. Just not enough info YET, to my mind to seriously start to pass on breeding some dogs that in every other way are perfect for the breed standard & your breeding objectives.

Sometimes knowledge can be a double edged sward.

I'm not a breeder so I may be way off with my thoughts & opinion on this. But also glad that I don't have to make these choices & decisions.

I'm thinking that with genetic testing these kind of issues are going to be more and more common. (With humans too, I'm happy I'm not part of the generation that is going to have to make some very hard choices, I think.)

I do agree that it is one thing to factor into the breeding equation. I know some people have advocated not breeding a dog as a carrier which really seems to be throwing out the baby with the bath water. Breed with a clear and there should be no problem.

But lets say as an owner of a 2 year old dog Ann your pooch tested at risk. What if anything would you want the breeder to do? This is assuming that you have an agreement with the breeder against genetic defects and that you discovered it in the contractual time frame.

I'd really like honest input here. I know what I would do as a breeder but I'd like to hear from the other side of the fence.

And keep it mind that at risk is just that. Does not mean that the dog will get DM.

It would probably scare the heck out of you guys if you knew how much time I spend mulling over things like this......ROFL

My poor husband has a chronic condition of rolling eyes syndrom....

If a kennel was 100% carriers, perhaps some new blood would be good?
This is the tack I have taken with my cows. Outcrosses outside the line.
Results are mixed. Traits I like seem to sort right with the carrier state. EG my favorite bull of 2011 (biggest,gentlest,calmest, best coat, most intelligent,most easily halter broke) carries Neuropathic Hydrocephalus and will likely go to the locker.

As far as kennel liability goes ------ with our angus bulls, we don't guarantee defects that were not yet "testable" at the time of the sale of the bull.
If you COULD have prevented a defect, then in my mind you might be liable.
Perhaps in the future some "limited warranty" might have to be added, rather than just guaranteeing the health of the dog "bumper to bumper".
I don't know how you are going to guarantee everything as DNA tests become more sophisticated.
Most things we die from, all of us, are due to some "weakness". Likely it's all in the DNA.

I did not read the entire article so I apologize if I am misunderstanding the data but am I correct in understanding that they *think* that:

A/A = Affected
A/G = Carrier
G/G - Clear

and that it is a simple mode of inheritance? ACDs have PRA in which we are able to DNA test for. Dogs are either Clear(A), Carrier (B), or Affected (C) and it is a simple inheritance in which:

A+A= All A offspring
A+B= Either B or A offspring
A+C= All B offspring
B+B= Either A, B, or C offspring
B+C= Either B or C offspring
C+C= All C offspring

When the DNA test came out 10 years ago the researchers cautioned breeders to use their heads and not throw babies out with the bathwater and only do A to A breedings and while there are quite a few breeders who do only A to A breedings there are many of us who will use a good C/affected dog to our A/clear dogs. In fact I could have easily bred Frost to Sinjin which would have been an A/A breeding but chose to do an A/C breeding instead.

If it was me and I had a dog that came up A/G or A/A for DM I would only breed it to a G/G until the test becomes more definitive. I certainly would not have a carrier or even affected result become a death knell to breeding the animal. It is just going to take more careful consideration if and when you chose to breed the animal. Just my two cents.

Betty, to answer your question to me:

I would be concerned on one level...but testing 'at risk' & actually having the problem or any signs of it are 2 different things. I don't believe you can contractually quarantee anything & everything that FUTURE testing can reveal or guaranteeing that any & all will never ever happpen.

Again showing at risk doesn't mean it will ever show up. And unless you are guartanteeing everything & anything for the life of the dog ( & with taking no consideration what the dog has been fed, how he/she has been worked/over worked as a pup & as an adult & exposed to etc etc etc) this is still something that shows up later in life. AND as stated....many of these dogs showing 'at risk' test results will pass on from another issue/disease entirely.

There are ALWAYS risks in breeding, even with ALL the knowledge you do know is a given. I think that you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere. For now I think until there is further info on this, I think it should have limited consideration at this time.

Interesting responses. Thanks guys

I wish I could find some stats on how many dogs that are at risk develop DM.