I have a Malinois that under no distractions works perfecly but put a decoy in the area and he loses it. I wanted to put control on him in all situations so I bought the Dogtra 1200NC but now I find that there is very little information out on how to properly use this collar. I have heard tid bits and pretty much have a general idea but I still am worried about the consequences of using it.

I introduced him to it, using the lowest setting he could feel, and started with the heel, then the come, sit, stay and the place command. He worked beautifully. I then began doing some simple tug work to make sure he understood the commands and how to "turn off the collar". I worked the bite, out, and guard. He did it perfectly. I took him out to the training field and played ball and did some simple "off-leash" obedience which he did exeptionally well. Finally after about a week of practice I took him out to do some bite work with the decoy. He went buzirk. I applied more stimulation but he ignored it. He is a very hard dog that would not out with a prong or two on. I figured he was going to need a lot of stimulation to get him off but I didn't think it would take as much as it did. He did come off but I want to calm him down. I want him to be clear headed in his bite work.

Does anyone have any suggestions on calming the dog's drive for the decoy and clearing up his head. If he works calmly he can do everything but if he has tunnel vision and focuses only on the decoy there is no way to progress in his training. Also I'd like some more info on training with the ecollar.

Thanks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Rocti,

Do a search on Lou Castle. Read the posts he has put up here for a start. Donn Yarnell would be another good search choice. Donn has a video out that is good also. With any luck at all Lou or Donn will respond to your question.

Welcome to the board, I think that you should be able to find the info you need here.

Rocti there is so much here that it would take a dozen emails to find out what you did and then another dozen to try to help you out. Why don’t you write me privately at the email address in my signature and I’ll send you my phone number so you can call.

It's not unusual for a dog to work very well in the absence of distractions and then to have problems when they are present.

I think the Bernard Flinks video could be of some use to you in calming the dog down during bite work. Bernard makes it look easy in the video but with consistent training it can pay off.

With a high drive dog you must gain the respect off the field first. Walk onto the field with the respect rather than trying to gain it then.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Vince P.:
With a high drive dog you must gain the respect off the field first. Walk onto the field with the respect rather than trying to gain it then.

One sentence. SWEET. Vintage Vince. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Have you ever had a shock collar hooked up to you? I reccomend you to do this before using it.Shock collars are a good way to quick fix dogs, but the same problems are going to occur a couple of days later down the road. Also you will make some dogs not even want to come for a bite by using one. Example what if every time I said your name I hit you. You would not want me to call your name, thats the way your dog is viewing the out command. All your doing by using that much compulsion is raising the dogs titration level or pain level tolerance. I would have to agree with what someone wrote about you watching the focous and grip video. I am not saying compulsion is not needed but the less cumpulsion is used the happier the dog will be to do what you want. Have you ever tried two decoys and did line drills or tried a indusive out. I think you need to exhaust other methods before going to shock.

Austin,

I would potentially agree with you if the e-collar was used at the highest levels to "blast" the dog off on an out. However, that is not the way that Lou uses it. An e-collar is like any other tool for compulsion, it can be mis-used. There are better methods of using it. In addition some dogs may need that type of training. It is all a function of the dog.

Austin wrote: "All your doing by using that much compulsion is raising the dogs titration level or pain level tolerance."

Joe Noble: Last time I checked, my e-collar has an adjustment on it. That means you can use choose to use LOW levels on your dog. Maybe you should research the latest technology before you make such a blanket statement.

Austin Moon wrote: Have you ever had a shock collar hooked up to you? I reccomend you to do this before using it.Shock collars are a good way to quick fix dogs, but the same problems are going to occur a couple of days later down the road. Also you will make some dogs not even want to come for a bite by using one.

LC: Austin I’m going to guess that you have little or no Ecollar experience yourself and that you’ve never seen one used as it should be. What you describe throughout this post is what I consider to be misuse of the tool and may even step into abuse of the dog. This is not the fault of the tool, but of the trainer who’s (mis)using it. If you take out the words “shock collar” from your post and insert any other training collar it makes just as much sense. Any tool can be misused or abused and no tool is foolproof to the right fool.

LC: As far as being a "quick fix . . ." There is no other tool that, when used properly, has the lasting power of an Ecollar.

LC: As far as hooking up the Ecollar to the handler, everyone I train to use the Ecollar gets this treatment. The nearly universal comment is “Is that all it is?” I’d suggest a read of my list of myths on this forum at

http://www.leerburg.com/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=000005

Austin Moon wrote: Example what if every time I said your name I hit you. You would not want me to call your name, thats the way your dog is viewing the out command.

LC: Now I know that you’ve seen the Ecollar misused. I train dogs that have difficulty with the out to do one in about 30–45 minutes. The pain level is about that of a fleabite.

Austin Moon wrote : All your doing by using that much compulsion is raising the dogs titration level or pain level tolerance. I would have to agree with what someone wrote about you watching the focous and grip video. I am not saying compulsion is not needed but the less cumpulsion is used the happier the dog will be to do what you want. Have you ever tried two decoys and did line drills or tried a indusive out. I think you need to exhaust other methods before going to shock.

LC: I’d recommend the Ecollar as the FIRST place to go. I use much less compulsion that I ever did with conventional leash and collar methods. The Ecollar, properly used is much less discomfort for the dog and less work for me.

LC: I invited Rocti to write me privately and get my phone number so we could talk in detail, but he has yet to respond. Perhaps he’s overseas and the cost would be prohibitive.

LC: And Richard, thanks for the kind words.