Just another weak attempt to stir the pot of conversation.

How long is long in a long down? Now, don't go all crazy because it is a reasonable training question, I hope.

My 'style' of dog stuff has to do with inclusive commands. When I command 'sit' or 'down' it is implicit in my training that either command includes 'stay.' I don't command 'sit' 'stay.' And I expect the dog to remain in the command until released. That said...

As an example, if a neighbor walks over, I down the dog or dogs so that I can have a nice conversation with the individual without having to constantly remind the dog or worry about the dog getting into some kind of mischief. The poor dog or dogs can be down a long time because, as anyone might deduce from my posts, I am a wordy fellow.

Kinda a strange question as I review this thing. But, for my part, I want the confidence that my dog or dogs will comfortably and willingly comply with a command, and wait for me to offer up another command.

So, I work on long downs. And long downs at distance.

By the bye, if I use 'stay' it has to do with proximity, like 'stay' in the truck bed. The dog can wander around in the bed of the truck but it can't leave the bed.

Anyway, I like to type.

Mike I agree with your definition. A down is a down and they will be released when we decide. We have working cattle dogs. If I am going into a pen with a cow with a new baby, I want to know with confidence that my dog is not going to break a down and join me which might aggravate the new mom. My dogs stay in the back of the truck or gator and do not get out until I give them a command.

A solid down is not just good manners, but a safety tool. My border collie can be going all out and drop to a down in half a second. Her down has saved us both a lot of trouble! In a high traffic area a solid down is essential.

A simple command to teach which impresses the heck out of people.

down is down till you give a release. just be careful of younger dog that forget there in down, just takes a reminder or two.

Our "downs" range anywhere from about 3 to as much as 30 minutes, depending on the circumstances. Like you said, a sit or down command means stay until released with an "OK". We use "stay" for other reasons and situations.

When I'm on a walk and run into someone to talk to on the way, I put her in a down, especially if there is another dog. It gives her something to do or focus on rather than start acting nervous or think about doing something stupid. That down can be 3 or 10 minutes, depending on how long winded we are.

When I'm walking both dogs, I start with a very short walk for our senior dog's benefit. When I return to put her in the house, I take my time, give the old girl a treat, put her leash up, and anything else that comes to mind. Meanwhile, our younger girl is in a sit in our garage, by the door, until I get back, mark and reward her good sit, release her, and go on our regular walk. That sit can be about 5 minutes. If she moves, I verbally correct and she returns to where she was. 99% of the time, she stays just fine.

When we eat, both dogs are in a down, "place" command, until we finish, as long as 30 minutes. Nothing drives me more nuts than a dog foraging under the table or around the kitchen while we're eating.

I guess it would depend on what your training for or what goals you have, 45 min an hour would be long.
The down is the strongest of mine or Zoey's next to the recall I can down her almost anywhere and have trained up to 45 minute downs and probably could go longer but feel bad for Zoey on super long ones. I have Distances at least 200 yards, shes also great under distraction of dogs & people.

I don't use "stay" to me that's a double command so I didn't train a stay more confusing IMO, when I say "down" or "sit" or what ever that means continue that until I give the release command "break", no "down" "stay", or sit stay.

For distance proofing or generalization and maintenance is key with long line & prong collar, or back tie already having a lead staked or use a tree or something to attach a lead. Down the dog remove your leash, attach the lead so if your dog decided to get up you can correct immediately with verbal reprimand as he gives himself a correction. You must teach him that this is absolute and he never moves until you go and release him, then continue to generalize in any situation you can think of.

Yes I know this wasn't a topic how to do it but how long is long, sorry Mike got crazy.

I am impressed by the training you have all accomplished. I'm still working on it with my pet GSD. He will sit/stay outside the backdoor, so far 3 minutes, but only if he promptly hears the treat jar open.

For example, he is outside were he can hear me, but can't see me. I can open the treat jar, then go to another room to get a jacket. He will continue to sit/stay until I come outside. If I go get the jacket first, he doesn't wait.

I was once having a yard sale and a homeless-looking young man rode up on a bicycle followed by a GSD mix. He needed to leave to get money. He rode away leaving his dog on the grass near the sidewalk. I yelled after him to take the dog. I had my young children with me, plus people were stopping by for the yard sale. He said the dog would be fine. I wasn't happy. People walked by on the sidewalk, cars drove up, etc. That dog did not move until the young man returned, a good 30 minutes later. I was amazed!

Thanks Joe for the instructions.

Nancy that homeless guy was me........lol
Kidding.

For me the down is the ultimate control command.

If you want your dog to hold a down in different situations you must train in those situations.

I have heard the long down is the easiest 10 points in Schutzhund, saddened to say not from personal experience.

 Quote: Gerald Dunn

down is down till you give a release. just be careful of younger dog that forget there in down, just takes a reminder or two.

For me, that's an intermediate bridge. I like to and try hard to introduce duration gradually enough (and use the IB enough) not to have to repeat the command.

"For example, he is outside were he can hear me, but can't see me. I can open the treat jar, then go to another room to get a jacket. He will continue to sit/stay until I come outside. If I go get the jacket first, he doesn't wait."

I think I am reading accidental patterns as well as distance introduced too quickly.

(I'd get those treats into your bait bag. I see hearing the jar open as the same thing as displaying the treat in a bribe move. True, the dog is in position, but you're kind of using a bribe sound to cement duration and distance.)

Also, I don't introduce or extend duration and distance at the same time.

JMO!