I recently did a session with a local dog trainer who uses only electronic collars to train his and his clients' dogs. He gave me a demonstration with his dog and I was not impressed. The dog listened to him but very methodically and without any sort of spirit.

A few days later I noticed a woman using an electronic collar to train her dog as well and her dog behaved in exactly the same way. Is this normal?

Should electronic collars be used for everyday obedience and training or are they better left for problem solving - ie. chasing, not coming when called etc.??

I'd love to hear some input!

Heather

Was this trainer a working dog sport trainer or primarily a "pet" trainer?

The reason I ask is that as someone who has helped people train their family companions, 9 times out of 10 the training consists of taking the drive OUT of the dog so the family can handle it. (whether Lab or poodle!) Most pet homes don't want and can't handle a dog that works in 'drive'

But, an ecollar is simply a tool and just because you train with one doesn't mean your dog should look dull if you are using it correctly. I don't know about you, but I have seen many dogs trained only with collar and leash that look dull and pressured. Just because someone is a dog trainer that hangs out a shingle doesn't mean they know diddly squat about working a dog in drive! (with or without a remote collar)

The dullness or lack of spirit comes from using a method of training that is based solely on the goal of avoiding pain, whether that's an ecollar or just a collar and leash. If you don't ALSO use a positive motivation for the dog, so that he has something pleasant to EARN, then his attitude will reflect it; there's no joy performing purely so that you can live to see tomorrow. This is a trainer to get far, far away from.

Aversive methods suck without a foundation of positive training. Big time. . .

Have some trainers tried using only the E-collar when correcting their dog, while still using the correct training methods with success, or claim to have done so? (positive training,etc.)

Originally posted by VanCamp:
Aversive methods suck without a foundation of positive training. Big time. . . I agree. This trainer said he puts ecollars on 8 week old puppies! He claims the ecollar is not punishment but communication. When I see his dogs work, however, I have to disagree. There's no life in them!

My real reason for looking into ecollars is to stop a problem. My GSD has a tendacy to be agressive towards children. She is fine when I am around (she know's I'll correct her) but is a monsterous bully when I'm not. Which is why I thought an ecollar might be perfect because she wouldn't know where the shock was coming from.

Well an 8 week old would be ENTIRELY different. I'm no expert but I've never heard of people even giving punishment hardly at all if any at that age.

I would think this was completely wrong. It would be like a toddler not moving fast enough and then when it didn't, you kicked it.

Maybe someone more advanced on this issue can chime in, but 8 weeks old is a completely different ballpark I think. I've never even used one before but even a hard command could be wrong, much less this.

As far as your worry with the children issue, I would read the articles on the site and buy some tapes.

Hello Everyone:
First off, why would an 8 week old puppy need an e-collar for? Just leaving mom and the breeder and brothers and sisters going to a new home, new environment, learning how to be alone (minus the litter mates) is traumatic enough. The focus should be on bonding with the new owner, learning how to accept the crate, learning its new name, through positive methods. There are several periods in a puppys life that are very traumatic (8 weeks, 16 weeks and 20 weeks are when the new addition to your family learns the basic skills of socialization and puppy development. If a person has an 8 week old puppy that they can't handle and need to have an e-collar on, they should give the puppy back to the breeder or place the puppy with someone who can handle the puppy (esp. when s/he matures). Any "serious" trainer who has any "serious" experience with high drive working dogs will not put an e-collar on a puppy. If they do, I would start looking for another trainer immediately. If they have a high drive working line puppy, your best bet is to take it to a trainer who can deal with those issues. I am pretty sure that this type of trainer isn't going to be found at the weekly PetCo OB classes.
Just my $.02 worth,
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Brandon

E-collar on an 8 week old puppy? WHAT?

Crazy shit.

8 week old puppy = POSITIVE EXPERIENCES

I may have to be physically restrained if I saw someone use an e-collar on an 8 week old puppy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

LoL, that's what I felt like typing in. I'd honestly respect someone dog fighting more. At least the dog gets to fight back.

That's abuse.