1st Issue

After finally settling in a semi-permanent location and tracking down a bulk raw source, I am finally going to begin a raw diet. My only concern is that Heidi is a gulper, sometimes she eats her kibble (rotate between orijen and TOTW) so fast that hse will cough some of it back up. Should I be freezing her chicken quarters and backs that I will be giving her for the first few days to slow her down a bit? We will be feeding pretty similar to the weekly menu on the main site for a 90 pound male.


2nd

Moved to http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32129&page=1#358972


Edited by Connie Sutherland (04/18/2012 11:30 AM)
Edit reason: move part of O.P.

For next time, ideally this would be two separate threads. They are unrelated.

But anyway, for Part 1, for a Hoover dog, I'd start with backs (not necks and not weight-bearing bones) and watch.

And you know that you probably don't actually start on Day 1 with the full diet, right? Even though many many dogs would be just fine, the few who will get diarrhea are plenty for me to say "start with the RMBs, see the poop, and add the other items one at a time."

So I'd start with just the chicken backs even for a non-Hoover, and I'd peel them just for a day or so. If the poops are perfect, I'd add back the skin and then add the next item.


ETA
Chicken backs, IMO, are way less likely to be sucked down in one slurp than, say, necks. And for a beginner who is also a non-chewer, I'd rather start with them than with weight-bearing bones (leg quarters).

Edited by Connie Sutherland (04/17/2012 08:45 PM)
Edit reason: eta

I was planning on alternating a chicken back and a leg quarter with half of her kibble for about 2 weeks to watch her, and also to make sure the quality of the chicken I am getting is pretty good. At that point I would be able to make a full blown order and slowly transition her all the way.

My main concern with the feeding is whether I should leave it frozen at first or thaw it out.

I can't see any benefit or disadvantage from leaving the meat frozen. Your choice. It *might* slow her down, but that's mostly an issue of knowing your dog's quirks and feeding appropriately sized parts.

You'll probably get some push-back from experts here about mixing kibble and raw. It's generally not a very good idea, based on the different rates of digestion for the two types of diets. Meat passes through quickly; grain-heavy kibble sits in the gut longer (and with it, the pathogens on the meat.)

But there are lots of anecdotal cases of people who feed both in a mixed diet. It's not something I've ever done, and I wouldn't.

A better approach, IMO, is to simply switch from kibble to raw without this mixed transition period. And then follow Connie's advice about beginning a raw diet with a single protein source (chicken backs are ideal) and do your "transitioning" over the next couple of weeks by slowly introducing muscle meat, organ meat, and new protein sources until you are feeding a varied, balanced raw diet. "Imbalance" in the diet is less an issue in the first weeks than overloading the system with new foodstuffs.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

I can't see any benefit or disadvantage from leaving the meat frozen. Your choice. It *might* slow her down, but that's mostly an issue of knowing your dog's quirks and feeding appropriately sized parts.

You'll probably get some push-back from experts here about mixing kibble and raw. It's generally not a very good idea, based on the different rates of digestion for the two types of diets. Meat passes through quickly; grain-heavy kibble sits in the gut longer (and with it, the pathogens on the meat.)

But there are lots of anecdotal cases of people who feed both in a mixed diet. It's not something I've ever done, and I wouldn't.

A better approach, IMO, is to simply switch from kibble to raw without this mixed transition period. And then follow Connie's advice about beginning a raw diet with a single protein source (chicken backs are ideal) and do your "transitioning" over the next couple of weeks by slowly introducing muscle meat, organ meat, and new protein sources until you are feeding a varied, balanced raw diet. "Imbalance" in the diet is less an issue in the first weeks than overloading the system with new foodstuffs.

Big ditto!

More in this post:
http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=30882&page=3#344410

alright I might hold back then a few weeks and wait until after she gets back from the k9 place, that way I will have a couple months to get her all the way on raw, and every once in awhile honest kitchen so she can be fed that during her stays.

I will examine my first order of just chicken to make sure they are bigger than the size of her head.

The Honest Kitchen is a great bridge to, and/or addition to raw.

I agree with Tracy on mixing raw and kibble, just more trouble than it is worth.
I personally believe that most dogs do great with a cold turkey switch, when you follow the start slow approach as Connie has mentioned.
I will also add when I switched both my dogs, I went cold turkey( pun intended ) I added a probiotic in the muscle meat portion and had zero problems with a quick transition.
Most problematic issues stem from too much food at once, too much fat too soon and too much liver all at once.

My male was a gulper when I switched to raw, I watched chicken necks go down with barely a bite.
I actually taught him to slow down, I actually held the turkey neck in my hand and made him work harder for it.
Maybe that is more than most would want to do, but it worked.
Something to consider, if you are up for holding the food.

As a side note:
I know that many are not a fan of getting involved with or interrupting a dog feeding and I get that.
But for me personally, I want my dog to learn that I give the food and I can take it away, and I don't want resource guarding.
By handling their food, and gaining their trust, I don't have issues with dogs growling if I take something away, because they have been used to me being near when they eat.


If you follow the slow method, cold turkey works really well, in my opinion.

So maybe 1/2 serving of honest kitchen turkey, and a 1lb chicken back the first few days?

Also I see that in the mock up schedule they use kidney and liver. Is that ground? and I assume that the liver is something that should be added very slowly over time, and probably not for at least 2 months after I start raw feeding right?

No need to grind organ meats unless you want to. You can just buy a whole liver or kidney (beef, pork, chicken, etc.) and cut it into hunks. Chicken livers are conveniently bite size.

Two months is probably overly prudent. If everything goes okay after the first week or two, you could sneak in a tiny piece of liver.

But even after a dog has been raw-fed for a long time, too much organ mean in any one meal would assure a case of the runs. An ounce or two at the very most would be pushing the limits of organ meat in a single meal.