last news link I'm gonna post today, but this one is timely and applicable... Do you agree with this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/opinion/sunday/one-dog-that-has-had-its-day.html?_r=1

I disagree, but then I disagree with almost anything that is published by the NYT.

I'm going to agree. Hopefully mals won't go too far down that road. I don't know anyone I'd recommend either breed to - german shepherd because of health issues (the reason I didn't get one) & malinois because of the extreme amount of work involved with being a responsible owner.

I disagree with you Linda.

I would guess that you just don't know any resposible GSD or Mal breeders that are breeding high quality working line dogs.

The SHOW breeders of GSDs & Malinois have pretty much screwed up those lines of dog, especially the GSD. But they are totally different dogs then the WORKING LINE dogs.

There are well bred, healthy, sound tempermented & nerved, structurally sound dogs being bred by dedicated, responsible breeders of both of these breeds. You just don't know where to look.

ETA....working line dogs are NOT for everyone. They require a far more dedicated owner that is prepared to meet the more extreme needs of these kinds of high drive dogs.

I think that what happend to the GSD was kind of a "perfect storm" of destruction. It wasn't just the popularity of the breed, it wasn't just the AKC interpretation of breed standards changing, it wasn't just back yard breeders breeding untested dogs. It was ALL of those things, and more that caused the decline of the GSD.

If it were just TV and movie popularity, many other breeds would have gone the same way as the GSD- Collies (Lassie), Black Mouth Curs (Old Yeller), Terriers (Toto, Eddie from Fraiser), etc...

While some police departments are changing over to Mals, others are going BACK to the GSD because they can't find handlers that can handle a Mal.

Because of some dedicated breeders, I think this is a great time to have a working line GSD- there are some AMAZING dogs out there, and I am proud to share my space with one of them.

Only my opinion, of course...

 Quote: Kelly

Because of some dedicated breeders, I think this is a great time to have a working line GSD- there are some AMAZING dogs out there, and I am proud to share my space with one of them.

Glad I posted the link... this is a very stimulating and informative thread.
Connie; great post discerning the working line breeders from the rest of this mess.

I'm a newbie, and see this position from a slightly different angle. I had always wanted but never had a GSD. I'd never even heard of the Mal until a few years ago. I didn't know the difference between working and show lines until I started the adoption process, nor was I aware of how political AKC is and how show-line breeders were affecting purebred lines. If I had, who knows whether or not I would still have wanted a GSD.

Now that I have a working-line GSD, I will never go back. My next pup will be the SchH GSD beast that Sadie is not. When I started to learn about handling, I became envious of the Mals, but I'm gonna stay committed to GSDs (unless I can rescue a neutered Mal that will fit into my home with the GSDs). I train with a GSD breeder that has excellent lines from Belgium. Wlll and Betty have excellent lines. This is the breed for me, and I can see it getting better and better.

Owning a working GSD is one of the most stimulating things I'v ever done. It requires that I become a better trainer and handler. It has opened new doors for me, like learning decoy work. it has introduced me to a whole new circle of friends.

Edited by Duane Hull (05/04/2012 09:42 PM)
Edit reason: added text

I totally agree that working lines & show lines are completely different but how many working line GSD's are out there compared to all of those registered by the AKC every year? Unfortunately for those who love GSD & want to them to remain working dogs, there are way too many unsound dogs out there both physically & temperamentwise (drive). The average person has no idea what a GSD should really be like. Take a walk at the park where average pets are & you'll see some sorry looking GSD's. It is tragic what has happened to this beautiful breed.

Since I got my malinois, I've just about decided that virtually no one should own one (or any working line dog) unless they undergo a complete psychological exam! I'm only half kidding about that - it's been a real learning experience. This is my first working dog & I went into it totally unprepared. I didn't know any working dog people, just folks who dress their dogs in clothes. I'm a much better trainer & handler since I got him. I love him to pieces but I need a vacation! We train 5 days a week and none of my friends or family willing to spend that kind of time. That's the downfall of working GSD - they've been "dumbed down" so the average person can have a dog that is attractive (till the hips go) with non existent drive & easy to live with.

IMHO, the same can be said for any breed. There are a handfull of really great breeders out there, but for every 1 great one, there are 100 terrible ones.
Many breeds have been dowsized to tea cups, supersized to mammoth perportions, coats altered, bodies evolved by breeding to barely resemble the breed or function it once began as.
This video may have been posted before, but it shows that GSD's aren't the only breed that "stadard" has screwed (for lack of a nicer word) The exagerated bodies and dumbed down "pet" versions have left several breeds with temperment and health issues, but there are still great examples of what the breeds should be if you find the right breeders and owners. Research is your friend
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hex00WjSobE

Loved the photo of the old time shetland sheepdog. I would buy that dog tomorrow if it was available.

 Quote: Linda Bransgrove

That's the downfall of working GSD - they've been "dumbed down" so the average person can have a dog that is attractive (till the hips go) with non existent drive & easy to live with.

SERIOUSLY?!!! Dumbed down? If you think that...you need to come & spend a few days at my house. I think you would recind that statment.

Just my female alone will drive you nuts. She just turned 8 & has done as much work as most 12 year old dogs & still has the same drive & intensity that she had at 2. She's crazy. Several of the folks here have seen her work & cn tell you what a nut she is.

BTW....the W/L dogs are AKC registered also.

I've also seen some not so great, nervy, poor temperemented W/L Mals thru the years also. The Mals will be the next breed to be taken down by the 'flavor of the month' mentality that is now taking place. Fine with me, maybe then the BYBs & puppy mills will leave the GSDs alone for a while & set their sights in another direction for a change.

There will always be good responsible W/L breeders (that are working & titling their dogs in various venues). You just need to know where to look.