I have a 170 lb. dog who has been dog aggressive. I am using an eCollar and recently got a pinch collar but it appears that they are both meant to be worn in the same position behind the ears. He also has his ID collar. I have not wanted to add a dominant dog collar as the remote collar seems to be keeping him from lunging and I usually walk him with a leash that loops back on itself like a choke collar, but I am wondering about the relative position of these or if I should be using one....both....all three? Pinch in front and remote behind? One leash on the pinch and the other as back-up? Am having trouble getting out the door what with collars, leashes, dog bags, remote.....

How are you using each collar? What are you doing on your walks?

Kim,

I'll sound the sexist but... Are you a female or male? Are you of comparable weight to the dog? That is a big dog, and if it has a history of dog aggression...

Mechanically, I think the pinch - good dog - prong collar would be the one I placed in the most advantageous position. And then I'd absolutely learn how to use it correctly to optimize control confidence.

The electronic collar, as long as the prongs make good contact can follow the mechanical collar, in my opinion. Of course, you have to be good at multi-tasking when it comes to using the mechanical collar and the electronic collar simultaneously. When control is the issue, distraction - fumble with the buttons - could be a problem.

I'd probably have have a second mechanical collar of some kind to use in tandem. In the past I've hooked the lead to two collars - one could be flat - just in case.

I suppose, in the first instance, I'd make sure the dog was absolutely solid on commands. Then I'd probably take the dog to places where my anxiety in re dog aggression wouldn't be as obvious to the dog.

I'm not a fan of some of the 'control' collars. At least one seems to me to incite the dog rather than help train it and/or control it.

I guess the bottom line for me is who is in control? Me or the dog. To be in control I have to train the dog to focus on me and my command set with or without a collar of any kind.

Ta-dah.

What a great post Mike.

Kim, I too have a couple of fairly large, strong dogs. My biggest is about 30 lbs less than yours, but with me being a 5'4" (almost 5'5" ) female of comparable weight to him, there is no room for the 138 lber to have any doubt who is leading the show.

He lives a very active life with outings on an e-collar but a lot of work went into building a respectful relationship and training commands before it was ever placed on him. And then a ton of training went into introducing him to it.

Simple leash pressure with a flat collar, specifically turning it off, was one of the first things he was taught. This boy steers like a Cadillac and has never worn a prong.

My 109 lb shepherd has worn a prong. He was a big, antsy boy when I got him, reacting to everything and pulling like a freight train. The tool was a god send for those sticky situations where control, through sheer strength, could have been in question. He learned to respect it very quickly and it helped me tremendously to accomplish the training that needed to be done at the time. I haven't had to use it for a very long time though.

As for using both of them, the prong, to me, is the one that's providing the most valuable direction at this stage and should be fitted properly.

I think, haven’t tried it, but I'm sure I could put the e-collar (if it would fit) on their tail or an ankle and the vibrate would get the attention I need to follow through with or speed up a command I've given.

As Mike stated, a good connecting fit just behind the prong, along with a good prior understanding from the dog as to what it's connections entail and why he's receiving them, and most importantly, a good multi-tasking ability on your part to get those corrections applied correctly, I see no reason the tools couldn't both be used to assist you in those unexpected situations.

As Mike also said though, I would be training outside those reactive zones, not purposely placing the dog in a position to have to use either, let alone both.

Life with these giant sized dogs is a beautiful thing but there is an absolute MUST that they know who's leading who and that starts with trust and understanding.

Train him without the distractions first and then protect him before he feels the need to ever have to protect himself.

Thank you Mike--after I sent my question I saw the photo of the German Shepherd with both collars which gave me a clue. I am female, 5'4", 130 lbs. (dog outweighs me by 40 lbs.) The dog's head is at my midchest and I only just got the prong collar so haven't had a chance to use it--I gather I'm meant to 'pop' it--sideways I hope, as an upward motion might be tricky.

He responds v. well to the eCollar on a medium setting that is momentary. I won't leave the house without it after he dragged me across a busy street to attack a labrador recently. Apparently it only happens when I walk him. I don't know if he is possessive or protective but seems to be particularly attached to me, but is fairly obedient in the absence of extreme distractions. Am waiting for "basic dog obedience" to arrive in the mail.

Also, I wonder if you can advise me re his training. We practice sit and down but he seems to have a problem with sit sometimes (esp. on slippery floors like the hardwood that is all over the house) as he has to back up and collect his limbs. He also is slow getting up off the ground after 'down'. Do you train such dogs differently, ie. are multiple repeats of 'down' not recommended? (Did I mention he's a rescue Dane of about 3 yrs. old?) I'm v. grateful for all advice. Kim

Only just got the prong collar in the mail so have only used it once and did not have to pull on it at all (had it on the live ring). He is a great dane, doesn't like the heat so walks are relatively short in this weather--once around the block and I am hyper alert to any other dogs in the offing. Also take him to a decommissioned golf course for
off leash where I seldom see other dogs. He doesn't seem to be aggressive when he is off leash. He doesn't get much exercise with me on the end of the leash because I can't match his stride length but we NEVER go out without the eCollar. Kim

"HYPER ALERT"

Can you explain to us what that means?

Are you constantly on edge while walking him? Or do you mean that you are relaxed and comfortable while walking him but vigilant with keeping an eye out for other dogs?

You would be surprised at how much a dog reacts to us and what we are doing.

How do you act when you see another dog coming your way?

How is your timing with the prong collar?
Remember, using the prong or E collar when the dog is already worked up will more than likely be counter-productive and may just amp him up more.
The timing with those tools has to be spot on and the correction has to be before the dog is in the "red zone". It has to be when he is just starting to "think" about moving towards the other dog.
Do you watch his body language for clues?

Whatever method you use, you need to get some solid obedience on the dog WITHOUT distractions.
Just taking him for walks and hoping to keep him under control can be a losing proposition unless you've had a good amount of previous dog training.

 Quote: Kim Winsor

Also, I wonder if you can advise me re his training. We practice sit and down but he seems to have a problem with sit sometimes (esp. on slippery floors like the hardwood that is all over the house) as he has to back up and collect his limbs. He also is slow getting up off the ground after 'down'.

Do you have a fenced yard? A concrete basement floor? Sunroom, wooden porch?

And I think you need some area rugs, too (the kind with no-slip backing, whether it's part of the rug or an added piece).

His "place" also needs to be skid-proof.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Whatever method you use, you need to get some solid obedience on the dog WITHOUT distractions.
Just taking him for walks and hoping to keep him under control can be a losing proposition unless you've had a good amount of previous dog training.

I hope the shortness of this post doesn't lead to it being overlooked.

Obedience training doesn't happen on walks with a reactive dog.

This is critical.



Are you marker training?