I have a question for the people who have more experience with this than I do. My 8 month old Dutch Shepherd pup had been doing extremely well in the obedience and protection training of French ring and PSA. He had been nervous of the stick, either clatter stick or the whip touching him, and we have been working on that, and he had been making progress with him on it. But at the last time at training when the decoy tapped him with the whip he let go of the sleeve and took a moment to re-engage. I don't know if this was partly from the fact that we had been working something new and he was confused and the stick touching him was more than he wanted to deal with or what. But the decoy did say that every time he did re-engage with him he hit harder, at one point my boy did almost knock the decoy down, and the decoy said that he was very noticibly pissed when he was on the sleeve. But he let go pretty much every time he was touched. We did have him bite the sleeve and raise the stick above his head and when he stayed on we let him end with that win. But what is the best thing to do now to help him through this? I can be playing tug with him, even on the field, and tap him with the stick anywhere and harder than the decoy and he won't let go its all a big game, even right after he spit it out for the decoy. But with the decoys he doesn't like it. I am going to take a step back in the fact that I am going to remove any obedience from the protection right now and let him just get crazy wanting the bite, but should we stop with the stick for now, or continue with it and make it a good thing. I hade used a clicker and treats with him to get him comfortable with me and make it a game, should I try this with the decoy? Have the decoy play tug and touch him with the stick and click when he stays on and than give him a treat, or would this encourage him to dis-engage? Any thoughts would be apprecaited Thanks!

I watched your newest video Geneva. Two things I think, may be something. I saw how worried he looked at around 4min, when he outed, like he really felt threatened by the helper, when he wasnt before that.

Later you're doing some kind of psa stuff with the helper surprizing him coming from behind a tree or something. My guess for what its worth, too much variety with no real plan for a young puppy. You may be creating unwanted suspicions in him when you should be concentrating on his confidence.

I'd stick to one or the other for now and while you can do the things you mentioned with him, back off the pressure a little and let the decoy build him up again.

Duplicate post. !!??@xx**

Steve,

Thank you for the reply What do yo mean by backing off the pressure? I am happy to do that, I want to build this pup up and take him as far as he can go, and am more than happy to do anything I have to to do that. I just want to be sure I understand what you mean by backing off the pressure. Is it something I need to do, or something the decoys need to do? Thanks again.

Some Mals take a bit to mature. Some never get over the nervousness. At 8 months I wouldn't allow anything but prey work.
I also agree with Steve about maybe to much to soon.

Bob,

Thank you for the reply. I am going to tell the decoys to work him only in prey drive for a good while. I think everyone kinda forgot that he is only a 8 month old pup, because he has been doing better than the adult dogs in the club. Thank again.

Thats all i really meant by pressure. Too much too soon, and I watched another of your videos, He's not always real sure about the decoy stopping in front of him straight on and I don't think his prey drive is enough to overcome that.

Ok, so only work prey drive for now and build confidence. And when you say his prey drive isn't enough to over come it, do you mean we just haven't work with it enough to over come it? Or that you don't think he has enough to over come it? From what I have seen I think he is super nuts with prey drive, but I could be wrong lol. I just think that maybe we went into defense to soon, and didn't build enough with the prey drive and than started to do to much obedience at the same time. I could be wrong and I can except it if I am wrong, I am just hoping that this is something he can over come. Both decoys think he can, and I trust them, I am more worried about me screwing him up. lol
I think my biggest mistake was to use obedience in the protection to soon and using corrections when he broke obedience when working, and maybe pushing down his prey drive with the worry of a correction. I got a head of my self and rushed things to soon.

Just kinda browsing through you videos Geneva, so I may not be right, but when I see him get a little unsure as soon as the decoy stops moving or come forward a certain way, I think he may have good prey drive, but not so strong that he wouldnt be bothered by that.

I don't think its a huge deal, but that combined with doing too many things different ways, then if you're cranking on him for obedience, pressuring him with the stick too,,,,

I know, its easy to go too fast sometimes.At 8mos he shows some things that make you think he's grown up, you get excited and forget.

"I think my biggest mistake was to use obedience in the protection to soon and using corrections when he broke obedience when working, and maybe pushing down his prey drive with the worry of a correction. I got a head of my self and rushed things to soon."


MARKER train the ob!! No way will it bring down his drive.
The later corrections can be much easier on the dog once it understands what you want.
ANY soft dog will choose being compliant for a reward instead of being compliant to avoid a correction.
I personally think it benefits any dog.
This is the club I belonged to. It works...honest! http://www.rwdc.org/
Look under previous dogs and then look up Thunder, my dog. He's also in a lot of the trial pics from 2008 and back and has added his HT since leaving the club. ALL the dog in this club are trained and titled with OC, markers and no physical correction. The video will explain it.