That would be me.

Duke is a lovely 50+lbs now! I kind of wish his ears would post up, but honestly, every time I look at his face, I stop caring.

His teeth are all the way in now, and we have lovely games of tug in the back yard - though my back is arguing with me over my definition of lovely at this moment. He has a good out, even when he's really into things - it's not FAST but it is consistent. Unless I ask for an out, I don't normally get the toy during tug.
He's relatively good, though not solid, with position commands under distraction. By distraction, I mean an off-leash bitch playing with him on our walks makes him not listen at all, almost any other distraction, I can get watch, sit after at least the 2nd, 3rd or 4th try. Bitch is going to be avoided from now until we successfully learn to give to leash pressure, for the sake of my left shoulder at least.

I have been re-watching M. Ellis's philosophy of dog training video and the section where he describes teaching the dog to give to leash pressure, and he does emphasize the use of a training collar for this - I am leaning towards the starmark pinch collar for this rather than a prong and hoping to start on that in the next week or so.

I am also now trying to add some duration to our positions using a bridge marker "good" - and I have discovered that I have inadvertently been adding physical marks with my vocal commands for position. >.< SOMEHOW I have taught Duke that my sitting on any chair, couch, table, releases him from position. He does pretty darned good unless I try to sit down. I have no idea how on earth I did that.

Also, his butt is lazy on his downs, he'll start off straight and square, I'll mark it good, then he'll flop his hind end over to the side (the sort of look you see below) and let his legs slide out. Maybe I just need to take him out and put him back in the down 30 or 40 times until he stops flopping over?

Hey Kristin,
You say you mark it when he does a correct down. do you mean you mark it, then when you go to give him a treat he flops over?
Or is he doing the flop after you've given him a treat?

Both - I get my YES in when he's all lined up nicely and attempt to treat immediately - sometimes I get the treat to him first, sometimes just afterwards. I am not doing this from any real distance, just standing next to him.

how about bridging?
that way he'll have to hold the good down in order to get the treat.

If im thinking correctly that is...lol

That way if he folds you haven't marked that floppy down.

 Quote: Kristin Muntz

Both - I get my YES in when he's all lined up nicely and attempt to treat immediately - sometimes I get the treat to him first, sometimes just afterwards. I am not doing this from any real distance, just standing next to him.

Yes is also a release. I think you want to mark and release and quickly move him away from the down position before he has a chance to shift or lay crooked. Later on, when you're working on holding the down, you'll reward him in the position to reinforce holding it.

I skipped reading your original post. I think you may not be ready to add much duration in your formal obedience Kristen, because you're still using a lot of physical cues intentionaly, so he doesnt know the others are unintentional. I'd make sure he understands the verbal command alone first.

Is he solid on the "yes" marker? That is, is the down reliable without duration?

"I get my YES in when he's all lined up nicely and attempt to treat immediately - sometimes I get the treat to him first, sometimes just afterwards. I am not doing this from any real distance, just standing next to him."

It sounds like you need to hold off on duration and get the down reliable without duration. And Steve's idea of m/r and quickly moving him away from the position would be a good way to do that.





eta
I was retyping part of this when Steve posted again. So it's unintentional that I pretty much echoed what he said.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (08/30/2012 05:50 PM)
Edit reason: eta

Great minds think alike ! Will start over again tonight, back to videos.

:O( i was wrong.

Sorry Kristin.

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

:O( i was wrong.

Well ..... maybe! Remember what they say about dog trainers .....

Kristin, I don't introduce duration to even the simplest command/position until it's understood and reliable with none.

And then it's very gradual, for me.

And you're right: the videos demonstrate it well. Which one(s) do you have?