Have had 3 yr. old rescue dane (bigger than I) for about 10 months. He has had issues with dog aggression and I walk him with both an eCollar and a prong collar. Twice in the past 10 months, he has lunged in an aggressive way at passers by while on our walks. One was a kid and the other an adult woman, neither of whom showed any interest in the dog as they walked by us. He made his lunge as they went by but did not make contact because the prong collar worked and he was corrected.

Does anyone have any insight into this behaviour? It has only been twice but out of the blue--these people didn't have dogs with them and were not threatening in the least.
It's a bit unnerving.

Others will probably help with insights into cause but on the effect side, I don't think I'd count on third time being charmed and I'd get at least a basket muzzle on this guy or walk him where no "innocent bystander" is at risk.

Good afternoon Kim,

No blinding insights as to why the lunges from me. Even well trained dogs can do surprising things.

A muzzle might give you more peace of mind.

I presume you have the training of the dog down such that the dog is tuned in to you and your cues.

That noted, I often taken anticipatory action when walking with a dog I'm not certain of, and even if I am certain. By that I mean, if I approach or am approached by other walkers, I sit or down the dog and wait for the others to pass. I try to anticipate and set in place the command sets that focus the dog on me. I usually greet the other people with a comfortable and cheerful hello, which is a big deal because for the most part I am a curmudgeon.

I think it too simplistic to suggest one can always anticipate a dog's behavior but you can establish command sets for likely situations. Have a plan for meeting and greeting. A dog walking scheme, if you will.

Go to the other side of the street if some one approaches. Down or sit the dog. Use a focusing command. For me it is a soft 'hey' if I think the dog is becoming too interested in some thing or some one. The lead can touch the dog, if you need to remind.

The objective has to be for you to have confidence in yourself and your dog. Sounds easy. Not so much. And a surprise or two can be unnerving. Anticipation and a practiced approaches to possible situations can go a long way to reducing anxiety.

I practice stuff in walks. A walk is a training opportunity for all kinds of command sets. Heel, stop, sit, down, sit, walk, heel, and all kinds of stuff. Use a long lead and practice commands at distance.

In the end it is training, and training, and training. If you are in charge and the dog is conditioned to your leadership, the random, unwanted acts should be less and less frequent.

I know. Useless.





Edited by Mike Arnold (09/07/2012 02:36 PM)
Edit reason: Punctuation

What have you been doing obedience wise, since your last thread?

 Quote: Mike Arnold

In the end it is training, and training, and training. If you are in charge and the dog is conditioned to your leadership, the random, unwanted acts should be less and less frequent.

This really is the crux of the replies, Kim. The same responses to the dog-reactivity thread (which talked about ob training) a few weeks ago go here too.


I think you were unfamiliar with markers, and also dealing with a bout of dog diarrhea, not to mention a slippery-floor problem, but bullet-proof obedience is what you need. How you are working on ob, how we can help with that, where are you with that?


Mike has given you a great tool with "Go to the other side of the street if some one approaches. Down or sit the dog. Use a focusing command." Don't let him be in a position to lunge at anyone.


Which is your best command at this time, right now? I would be practicing that command at home, in the yard, in the driveway, on every skid-proof surface available, and making it second nature.

Where are you in that process?

I want to thank everyone who responded. This webboard is such an excellent resource.

We've been working on training rather sporadically because of my work schedule. We just got back from a little park where we worked on 'down' and 'stay'. He's v. good at these in the absence of distractions but is slower to sit and down than the dogs in the video but I think that is size related. What is the best way to test for bullet-proof obedience?

He has also been v. good on walks. I only had to use the eCollar twice and he has not tried to engage another dog since. I've been quite relaxed on our walks but am always on my guard for people approaching because of the instance a few months ago when he lunged at a young boy. He is on a short leash right beside me whenever we pass anyone or they pass us. His lunge at the woman today was a surprise but, because the leash was short and the prong collar worked well, I don't think she was even aware. When I jerked the collar (which was on the live ring) and told him 'no', he lay down. I'm reluctant to get a muzzle now as he has never bitten anybody (while we've had him), the dog paraphernalia is piling up, it takes forever to get out the door as it is, and I am reasonably confident that I can control him. I'll try the 'hey' when I see someone coming. I sensed some kind of tension today just before he made his move but didn't have any reason to suspect that he would react (and of course you don't have the leisure to analyze your instincts at the time).

P.S. I admire Mike for his cheerful "hello's". I smile if they look at me but everyone has earbuds in! (including today's potential victim).

In response to the takes forever to get out the door, I feel for you because I am in the same boat, but I think everything I have with me is worth it. Sometimes Tanka is wearing a Koolcollar, an insect shield bandana and whatever collar he is wearing for the walk, I am carrying a pistol and a horse riding crop(not for him), I am wearing the bait bag, need a phone in case of emergency, poop bags... if we are truly leaving the house, a doggie diaper bag with water, bowl, treats, food? a hand towel, extra collar... if you need it, you need it, even if it takes a bit more time. On the bright side, maybe you only need it for awhile until you get everything concrete and you are confident in what he will and won't do. Walking a dog myself who almost outweighs me, I am wondering if there is much than can hold a Dane back who is really set on getting somewhere no matter what? I don't know, I have never walked one. I'm curious though, with a dog that big.

I suppose one way, I make no claim to 'best' way, to test is to make sure when you are alone with your dog, command compliance is solid. Then you want to train with distractions, use the walks with the dog to take advantage of random distractions. You don't need to scare the heck out of strangers but you can make their approach part of your training by training your dog to focus on you and you alone. You can see the person coming, and you can begin the focusing emphasis. You turn the training into the distraction, might be a way of describing your efforts.

A down should be worked on when you are alone, and you should cue the dog if it starts to get antsy. If you work with the dog when you are alone, the cue is imprinted for when you are at the park, it seems to me. If the dog responds slower when you are at the park, your cue and the dog's compliance isn't solid. You should be more important to the dog than the distraction, though that is a goal for most all of us.

Ya'know, if I were to command 'no' and 'jerk' the collar of one of my mutts their reaction would not be to go down. If I twitch the collar or pop it, it is to cue the dog to reinforce a given command. Down is a command. 'No' is a command but it is not the down command.

Keep the dog focused on you directly and indirectly. Keep a calm but purposeful demeanor. Get on about partnering with your dog. You are the leader and trainer, and some times the distinctions get blurred.

I prefer loose leashes, of a length I can appropriately manage with two hands, one the primary and one the secondary to pull out the slack. If I have to take out the slack, that action cues the dog to attend to me and ignore distractions, though I doubt the dog has any understanding other than conditioning to wise up.

I might note that you shouldn't sense a tension and react but rather it is your role to anticipate a situation and control it before anything can happen. If there is a possibility the dog might act out, you must anticipate and remove the temptation by command or changing proximity. You have every reason to suspect a problem based on past experience. So, you anticipate and control so that the potential problem does not turn into a situation. The dog should focus on your leadership.

I must sound like I am paranoid. Hmmm... Another discussion, I suspect. That noted, I walk with my dogs as if I am training them and reminding them that I am the leader and they are the followers. The walks require little training and little reminding, now. Takes time, patience, purpose, goals... I don't settle for behavior. It is my way or it is my way.

The dogs are anything but pansies. I think well trained dogs are trained or conditioned to want the rewards of command compliance. Good dog. Toss the ball. Here's a treat. Well done. It is exciting to work with dogs that get it. It is joyous. And the most rewarding is their disregard for distractions in favor of 'playing' with me. Makes me feel smart, and God knows that ain't the case.

With this kind of stuff Kim, everything has to be controlled. Random problems on a walk set you back. You have to treat everything as training for a long time. Its best to work on it with people following your plan, not with strangers you may cross paths with.

I wouldnt muzzle him. You know he may lunge at different people, so keep him at a safe distance. Mike mentioned a loose leash. Holding him on a tight leash signals to him somethings wrong.

If I was you, as I decreased the distance from people in your obedience, I'd concentrate on him being in a down. Teach him he can't go forward towards people. That will help you later on to go past people. You want him to relax and ignore people and people to ignore him. Slowly increase distractions, etc while he's downed.

For me a "in training" thing that help me was to place myself between the passerby and my dog. That way I was in a good position to block and correct.

When I got good at seeing the lung coming and that I was confident that my dog would respect a firm NO. I started walking him next to passerby but not too close at first. Now he is very good in heavy traffic.

Also I travel at a pace that keep the dog too bussy to look for trouble (pretty fast in other words)