We've recently started watching the Leerburg video on establishing pack leadership with adult dogs but have run into a stopping point. Our GSD has horrible crate anxiety and leaving him alone in it causes him to really freak out. My wife and I both work at offices so we cannot stay with him 24 hours a day to supervise him in his crate. The problem is that the first step in the video is to get him calm and submissive in it.
He does fine when left alone in our home but we really want to start from square one and follow the video so we'd like to get him crate trained but don't want to risk him hurting himself while we're not around. Has anyone else dealt with this? Is it as simple as first working on getting him crate trained to the point where he can stay in there for a day without us and then starting the Leerburg steps? To me it seems like a chicken and egg type problem...

Welcome!


Is this an adult?

How long have you had him?

Is there just the one dog?

How is he left now? Free run of the house, closed in a room, or what?


(You'll get answers .... I'm just setting us up with more basic info. )

Hi Connie, he is an adult that we think is about 4 1/2 years old. We've had him for about a year and a half and he lives with two other dogs which are both older (about 8 1/2). Right now they are free to roam the house but we'd like to work on crate training all of them. The older dogs shouldn't have issues as they are already ok with crates, it's just our GSD that we are worried about.

I searched around a bit more on the Leerburg site and came across the muzzle suggestion. This might be something we look at to make sure our GSD at least doesn't hurt himself, not really sure what to do with the anxiety though.

Some dogs never get over it. If they stress out to the point of injuring themselves they might never get over it. Maybe in some situations, as in being crated in the car while driven around for training and such but once they realize they have been left alone they will freak out again.

You are lucky the dog is fine in the house, some destroy the house when left alone.

Medication helps in some cases.

I wouldn't use the muzzle in this situation.

First, welcome to the board! Here is my two cents concerning the issue you are facing:

If you have an adult dog who is fine all day loose in the house, and it is clear that he suffers anxiety and distress in the crate, then I wouldn't worry too much about crate training him, at least not to the point of "...he can stay in there for a day without us..." IMO, that is completely unnecessary and would be a very unkind thing to do to him. No offense intended here! I know you are on this board and following the DVDs because you care about your dog and want to do right by him.

Dogs suffer anxieties and phobias similar to humans and to subject your dog to an entire day in a crate in his present state of mind would be very counterproductive. Same with the muzzle. I believe that will only add to his stress.

You can certainly work on pack leadership without the necessity of confining him to a crate for long periods. Does he have a dog bed that is his "place"? You could practice having him stay there when you ask him to, instead of a crate. Or perhaps a room that he is comfortable in, and close it off with a baby gate.

Then, in the meantime, work very gradually on acclimating him to the crate, but this will be done in baby steps. Start by having him stay in it while you sit outside of it, with the door open, just for a minute or so. Then release with a reward. Next time a little longer, then when he is comfortable, start closing the door for a very brief period, and so on and so on. Don't plan on leaving this dog in the crate while you leave the house for a very long time.

Crate training, of course, is a good idea, even if you never need one at home, because there could be times your dog will have to stay overnight at a vet, etc. (But with a dog like yours, the vet would probably use a sedative to reduce his stress.)

eta: Here is the crate training method I was trying to explain. This is a much more comprehensive and detailed description. You can use a marker word like "Yes!" instead of a clicker.

http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/blog/dog-crate-training

Edited by Cheri Grissom (09/10/2012 07:27 AM)
Edit reason: add link

I'm with Ana and Cheri. Crate training is always good, but in a case like this, as Cheri said, "You can certainly work on pack leadership without the necessity of confining him to a crate for long periods. Does he have a dog bed that is his "place"? You could practice having him stay there when you ask him to, instead of a crate. Or perhaps a room that he is comfortable in, and close it off with a baby gate."

Again, crate training is always good. In this case, it's not a necessity right now for this dog in order to move forward with pack work,

(I too vote no on a muzzle.)


You might want to address here how it works with two crated and one loose dog. This can be a problem, possibly requiring the separation ideas Cheri mentions.

Also, if there are specific issues that are prompting the pack structure work, it would be good to explain them so the folks here can help with how to work toward resolving them while adapting your protocol to this one crate challenge.

 Quote: Eujon Sellers

He does fine when left alone in our home but we really want to start from square one and follow the video so we'd like to get him crate trained but don't want to risk him hurting himself while we're not around.

Here's my opinion: a crate is a tool to safely confine a dog until he is trustworthy when left alone.

Your dog does fine when left alone uncrated. Perfect.

Don't get me wrong--I'm a big fan of crates. But my goal is to eventually have every dog "graduate" from the crate when they are old enough to be trusted alone. If I were you, I'd just accept that yours has already "graduated" from his crated years and not try to force the issue. Consider yourself fortunate and more on to the next training issue. No need to use a tool to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

For you, I think I might forget the crate.
I have an IG who cannot be crated. I really really tried but it became clear that she was going to break her skinny legs if I pushed the issue. Left alone on the couch, she just sleeps.
The mat, go to mat, stay is a wonderful alternative and any shepherd can learn this and learn to like it. Treats occasionally appear at the mat, the hair is mainly on the mat, no one else gets to go on MY mat.
I'd try this instead with an adult dog. It combines "go to" "stay" and "down". All valuable commands.

Thank you everyone for the advice, it helps a ton. We're just now in the planning phase of this "doggie bootcamp" so we're just working through what we want to put in place before we actually start. Having this information helps a ton.

Connie, as far as specific issues, the main reason is that my wife and I are planning on having children soon. Our GSD has been around kids before and does pretty good but there are points where his prey drive kicks in (usually when the kids are excited or running) where he tries to basically herd them. This is something that we realize is part of his breed, but at the same time we'd like to get to a point where he understands when this is ok and when it is not. He is a rescue dog as well and we feel that we never properly introduced him into our house and that we haven't given him the structure he needs or a job to do. We'd like to get him set on the building blocks and then move forward to maybe something a little bit more advanced like tracking, something that he has the DNA for but we just haven't given him a chance to do yet.
Our other two dogs are pretty good but they could use some bootcamp treatment as well to get them back to where they should be so we'd like to just take all three of them and basically start over with the pack structure to re-establish (or maybe just establish) anything that has been lost and then go back to the basics.

Sorry for the long post haha, just had to explain it all so that the situation makes a bit more sense.

 Quote: Eujon Sellers

Connie, as far as specific issues, the main reason is that my wife and I are planning on having children soon. Our GSD has been around kids before and does pretty good but there are points where his prey drive kicks in (usually when the kids are excited or running) where he tries to basically herd them. This is something that we realize is part of his breed, but at the same time we'd like to get to a point where he understands when this is ok and when it is not.

Putting the dogs, especially 9 year old senior dogs, through "doggie bootcamp" seems a bit excessive, in fact it could cause a whole lot of stress when you plan to bring human babies into the picture.

Sounds like your dogs are well behaved, and good house dogs. If it is about introducing a baby then think about how the household will change (really think) when the baby arrives and acclimate the dogs to that before it happens. When the baby comes things will be stressful, prepare the canines. If it is done well and as a POSITIVE thing (vs someone freaking out and getting annoyed with the dogs that have lived there for years) the dogs will accept and protect the baby as one of their own.

Why boot camp? Is someone suggesting that the dogs can't live around a baby so you are trying to make them perfect? If the dog knows the baby from birth and sees baby as a positive family member I just don't see the prey drive kicking in when the kid starts running around. Now when the child is old enough to have friends over and they start screaming and running around like mad, if there is a problem fence off a "children's yard" and let the kids go at it.