 Very shallow bite
#367632 - 10/07/2012 12:48 PM |
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River is teething, so I don't expect much from her in the way of tug. I'm sure her teeth are hurting her. However, she had a shallow bite on a tug (of any kind) right from the start.
Once her mouth stops hurting so much, what are some things I can do to encourage a deeper bite on a tug? Radar was very easy - he stopped tugging while teething, but was a stuff-it-all-the-way-back dog from the get go.
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367637 - 10/07/2012 07:48 PM |
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It's usually a genetic issue. I would want to see a natural full bite in a pup, right from the start, if I was going to do bitework with it. It is not really something that you can teach. Usually even if you can improve it, to some degree, it usually doesn't hold up very well under pressure. By pressure I mean a decoy working a dog in a trial or in real protection work.
If SchH or IPO sport work is your intent...then the worse that can happen, if he can at least stay on the bite...is he will loose some points.
I have not done ring sports, but I don't think they penalize for a shallow bite. The dog just needs to engage & stay on the bite. I might be wrong though.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367644 - 10/08/2012 07:38 AM |
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She's not any kind of bite work prospect. I got her for possible SAR work (waiting for the group to have the time to evaluate her) and if she fails that then we'll do all the AKC sports.
My desire to get a good bite on the tug is for reward purposes only. She's got medium but decent prey drive and enjoys chasing the tug, but still takes those shallow bites once she catches it. If I've got to use food and a tennis ball instead of tug, I'm okay with that!
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367647 - 10/08/2012 09:27 AM |
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Hey, Sam...miss you being here in NOLA.
Just a thought, as I wait for some of the more experienced folks to weigh in; the game may be completely different once she finishes teething and puberty. Have you tried a flirt pole in the meantime? This may intensify her "decent" prey drive and build some confidence in the game, and combined with the prey drive, the frustration may cause her to latch on for keeps.
JMO
Sadie |
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367654 - 10/08/2012 11:16 AM |
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If she likes balls, you can use a ball on a rope in place of a tug as a reward.
And yes, a flit pole with a ball or tug on it may increase her drive in general & possibly for the ball or tug & may increase her desire to hold onto it. It may also make her biting with the front of her mouth worse, as she will be trying to snatch it on the run. But make sure you let her 'win' ALOT if you are looking to increase her drive. A mistake that many people make (especially with pups)& then they end up decreasing the dog's drive not increasing it. There is a fine line between frustrating a dog enough to increase their drive & making them feel defeated & you loose drive.
While she is teething..work on just playing fetch with a ball & just fun marker training.
Some lines develope late & she may get better drive as she gets closer to a year old.
What is her hunt drive like? Will she search endlessly for a toy until she finds it?
MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: Anne Jones ]
#367668 - 10/08/2012 03:04 PM |
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"What is her hunt drive like? Will she search endlessly for a toy until she finds it?"
This would be a top priority when looking at drive and thinking about SAR, right? (Not something I have any expertise in at all.)
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367672 - 10/08/2012 03:39 PM |
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Yes, you would want to see alot of drive & a dog that WANTS to search. In many cases you can see it even in young pups. They will search even at a young age with a different kind of intensity then just your 'normal' high prey drive pup. My female has it, but none of the males that I have owned have had that kind of tireless search intensity that she possesses. Too bad SAR is not my bag.
I have a very good friend that does USAR & I have seen a number of her litters & seen what she looks for in pups that make good candidates for search work. It is more then just a high prey drive.
Some lines of dogs develope late & so you may be surprized with a pup that doesn't seen to have what it takes at 10 weeks will show what you are looking for at 10 months. That's what makes puppies somewhat of a risk if you are looking for a pup for a specific job.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367673 - 10/08/2012 03:41 PM |
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Duplicate post.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367682 - 10/08/2012 06:08 PM |
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Sam;
Did you ever join Schutzhund USA? The July/Aug magazine has an article on building phases in young dogs. It is a reprint of a 1981 article by Bernhardt Mannel.
Therein is an excellent description of the mental process that a dog goes through in prey drive, and how to use it to your advantage. Basically, it explains how the dog associates stalk-acquire-kill with the toy you present to it, and how that translates to tug and eventually teaching bitework.
Sadie |
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Re: Very shallow bite
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#367683 - 10/08/2012 07:08 PM |
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Duane - No I haven't but I'm signing up as soon as I finish this.
Her hunt drive is very high. She is still very young at 4 months old, but I've been impressed with how hard she works to figure out how to get something. I've been doing K9 Nosework with her for fun, and she will search the entire room over and over again until she finds the treats. I haven't seen her quit looking yet. She's a very laid back dog, for a malinois, but when there's 'work' to be done, her light switch is on and it doesn't go off until she wins.
Sadly she's a rescue pup after her mother died along with most of the litter and the 'owners' dumped them at the shelter still needing to be bottle fed. I have no background information on her before she was taken into rescue. Her genetics are 'who knows', so I'm not going to cry over it if she matures into an agility dog instead of a Search and Rescue dog.
Edited by SamanthaTopper (10/08/2012 07:07 PM)
Edit reason: Forgot to add a critical word - mother died
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