Hello all. My first thread was in the Schutzhund area and this may be a more appropriate place to post the questions I have at this point.

For sake of reference, I own a handful of Leerburg videos: Puppy 8 weeks, old basic dog obedience, Bernhard Flinks on drive/focus and the other one on preparing for helper. My most recent purchase was "The power of training dogs with markers".

Rather than post multiple threads, I thought it might be easier to consolidate the couple of questions I have into a single thread.

#1-If I'm ever down on the floor with puppy, she'll try to nip at my facial hair, it's probably only a matter of time before I get a nice bite on my chin at this rate. Any thoughts on this as to why she's doing this and what (if anything) I should do about it.

#2-On marking. From what I understood, we say "READY" and we conduct a training session and then say "DONE". But suppose I take puppy for a walk and she's doing something desirable, is it appropriate to mark or no?

#3-Puppy does not like some people for whatever reason. While walking throughout town, some people she ignores, others she seems captivated by and others get her fur ruffled up.
note: I have not been "socializing" her with other dogs or people outside of my household. I don't let other people pet her.

This is a 13-14 week old pup, I think, acquired 2-3 weeks ago, per prior posts.

You'll get lots of answers, I'm sure. I will start with #3. "Socializing" means (to me) taking the dog with me lots of places with the end result that the dog is used to and ignores/tolerates passing strangers, other dogs, etc. Nothing to do with play dates or meet-n-greets. Can you detail when she has time to hackle or be captivated? Is it when you stop and talk, or what?

On #3, you might want to elaborate, like, for example, whether she is doing something you'd like to "capture" (free shaping).

Connie,
Did you mean #2? Prior to buying the video on the power of marker training, I had been marking her looking at me with YES and food reward...whenever I was prepared to do so. Which has me questioning if I take her outside and I say "READY" and she looks at me, it IS appropriate to mark it with "YES" and food reward. However; if I say "DONE" and then we just go for a walk around the neighborhood and I catch her looking at me...is it appropriate to say "YES" and reward...that's what I'm getting at here. Am I sending mixed messages to her if I am not always rewarding her when she looks at me...or moreso is it not appropriate to mark and reward if we're not officially "READY"

For #3-
I took her for a walk through the village (woods hole) where I work. At this time of the year there is a handful of people. I do my best to keep her moving along despite her puppy curiousity of wanting to stop and sniff or check stuff out. Many people will pass us during our walk and it seems very random. Some people she will seem interested or curious in like she wants to approach them, others she will ignore and some others actually get her fur raised up on her back and she barks like she's tough or something. I don't know if there is any rhyme or reason to why she does this to some people. The last group was a couple of 20-something women...we did however pass older women in pairs during the walk and she didn't seem to care. Also--not sure how I should handle her doing this. =)

#1- Normally when you interact with your dog, you are upright, not at eye level, and your face is not accessible. When your face all of a sudden becomes accessible, the way the dog interacts with you changes, normally with an increased excitement level. My 4yo gets excited when I get down on the floor with her.
What's needed, IMO, is rules to the play, and redirection from your face. Start off by letting her know that she can't nip at your face and redirect her to a toy. If she won't stop, withdraw and let her calm down. If repeated attempts fail, end the session. Eventually, she should learn that play isn't without limitations. If the problem persists, you will have to be firmer, but starting with a lot of corrections will only damage the relationship.

#2-You can certainly mark and train any time you like, even if it's not a "session" that begins with "ready". BUT, you don't have to mark every behavior if you're interacting casually.

IMHO, marking every time she makes eye contact is part of charging the mark, and as soon as she understands that the mark means a reward is coming and she is offering eye contact to get a mark/reward, I add the command. From that point on I don't mark eye contact unless I command a "look" or a complex behavior that includes focus.
What I'm getting at is that, on a casual walk, I don't really want the dog soliciting. In that setting, I only mark what I command. I will throw in some random commands and training during a casual interaction, but I won't use "Ready" or "Done". In a structured session is where I use luring and teach new behaviors without using commands.

All just me...

Connie and Duane! I came to the puppy area to stop from harassing you two over in the Schutzhund section. =) haha.

Thanks for the tips and advice.

Yes, I mis-typed the number on my last paragraph.



"Also--not sure how I should handle her doing this."

About the hackles or wanting to go to, I'd just keep on walking, calmly, giving the puppy the cue that the people are boring background and nothing to react to.

About the m/r for unasked-for behaviors, I pretty much agree with Duane .... that is, I'm not generally marking for something I didn't ask for. But another point came up, which is not to overlook the walk to ask for a behavior the dog has learned. I carry hidden rewards. You will see a lightbulb come on in the dog's eyes the first time you ask for that sit that you had previously asked for only, say, in the kitchen, and now ask for on the side of the walkway. You might get a "what the heck?" look before the sit, and then when you mark and pull out the reward, that lightbulb moment of "Ohhhhhhh! These things can happen anywhere!"

New focus on you, less attention to the passers-by, and the beginnings of proofing for venue.

JMO!

I have to laugh because this pup actually surprises me with her "brightness". She will actually walk out to the end of her flex-lead, turn around and just stare at me in the eye...

Then I'm feeling all self conscious and put on the spot by this young puppy...like she's telling me "OK DUDE...TELL ME TO DO SOMETHING."

At times I feel like she's taking advantage of me...like she knows if she does certain things she gets a reward...so she sets up situations to make me want to call her to me or something...damn I'm a sucker and an idiot. =)

Oh yes, she is smart, and you WANT to see her eagerness to work! Isn't marker training the
bomb?


When I am training one dog, my own or someone else's, the other dogs are gathered around as close as they are allowed, praying for their turn. It's funny .... I liken it to Arnold Horshack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd4VkBcG2PQ

Good stuff, Kenneth.

When she offers that stare, instead of marking the look, throw a random command at her. She's offering engagement and behavior in hopes of getting something. That's when I would do something random. She gets out on the lead, then turns and stares, and instead of marking that, I say "come". She comes, and THAT's what I mark.

that's usually what I'll do, but I wasn't sure of how correct that was...being that I'm not supposed to introduce commands at this stage of the game.

I do have some other questions pertaining to drive and focus (Bernhard Flinks stuff) --

I've been trying to work her prey drive as well, just to mix things up because I only have so much knowledge with the marker training video I have...it won't be until Dec 7 that I can consider another video and honestly my wife will probably give me the "CHRISTMAS IS COMING" crap and that will delay me even further.

I just typed out a bunch of crap pertianing to the Berhnard flinks stuff...and wiped it out. I figured that M. Ellis has all of this covered in his "power of playing tug" video which I should get at some point.

This should be an easier question-Being that BASIC marker training is relying on food drive, does it make sense to build prey drive at this point in the game? I would think that it would.

If so, I'm guessing that the M. Ellis protocol is now what everyone is doing and rather than me mess with the Flinks stuff, can anyone offer me some basic exercises I can do within the M. Ellis protocol to build drive until I manage to procure a copy of the video?

I have been "making drive" with the puppy and doing the "into my arms" stuff and walking around in a circle and it's not going so well. The prey drive part is good...she's got good drive and I can only imagine that playing with her is encouraging her to build more prey drive. Where I'm iffy is the "into my arms" stuff makes her skidish, she hates it and she isn't calm and wants to jump around...plus as someone else mentioned M. Ellis might have issue with the "into my arms" part. And I'm not sure if I'm following good practices with how I'm playing tug with her. I might be encouraging her to be more mouthy than she already is etc. =(

Should I just forget about the prey drive stuff for now?