I would like to ask a question of all the raw feeding experts.

We recently resolved a problem concerning our dog's soft poop by dividing her meals into 4 smaller portions instead of 2 larger ones. At the moment we are feeding one cup (dry measure) THK for breakfast and dinner, and one cup of Sun Dancer (Solid Gold) lunch and before bed. We also add on eggs, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, or meaty beef ribs (whatever is in the fridge) for variety once a day.

My question is: Would it be possible to phase out the kibble completely, and substitute a raw meal-say at lunch-and still feed THK the other 2 meals?

I'm not sure I want to commit to full time raw, but once a day would be a trial to see if we could all handle it. Plus, as a long time vegetarian, it would mostly be a trial for me.

The reason we don't feed her THK exclusively: she requires 4 cups a day, and that is cost prohibitive for us. But 2 cups a day we can handle. We are lucky to have a locally owned butcher shop close by, and they said they would be happy to help us by ordering what we needed.

Thanks!

 Quote: christy mascari

I would like to ask a question of all the raw feeding experts.

We recently resolved a problem concerning our dog's soft poop by dividing her meals into 4 smaller portions instead of 2 larger ones. At the moment we are feeding one cup (dry measure) THK for breakfast and dinner, and one cup of Sun Dancer (Solid Gold) lunch and before bed. We also add on eggs, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, or meaty beef ribs (whatever is in the fridge) for variety once a day.

My question is: Would it be possible to phase out the kibble completely, and substitute a raw meal-say at lunch-and still feed THK the other 2 meals?

I'm not sure I want to commit to full time raw, but once a day would be a trial to see if we could all handle it. Plus, as a long time vegetarian, it would mostly be a trial for me.

The reason we don't feed her THK exclusively: she requires 4 cups a day, and that is cost prohibitive for us. But 2 cups a day we can handle. We are lucky to have a locally owned butcher shop close by, and they said they would be happy to help us by ordering what we needed.

Thanks!

Sure you can do it that way, as long as you don't exceed the THK-recommended add-in proportions (unless the add-ins are RMBs that are balanced themselves, in which case there's more wiggle-room).

However, this dog has a history of soft stools, which would make me a little worried about feeding an entire meal of muscle meat (as opposed to RMBs). Even though the add-ins can be boneless (as long as you stay within the guidelines on the package), for this dog, a whole boneless meal might well trigger a bout of pudding-poop.

So with that background, what would the raw meal be? Any chance it could be chicken backs, which you could start with "peeled" (skin and blobs of fat removed) until you see the poop results? Such a raw meal would not only have the digestible bones that firm up the poop, but even leans toward boniness.

Thanks Connie!

Since reducing the meal size, she has not had one soft stool. We have given her raw muscle as a snack, (never with kibble) with no issues.

If I were to add one stand alone raw meal, what should that look like? How do I know how much? Two cups of Force is about 900 calories so I would need to make up the difference with raw. She is an 18 month old GSD, 70 lbs. pretty athletic and active. Is there an equation or formula?

Uuggg...This is why I have shied away from raw feeding. It is intimidating-but I know it is what is best for my dog.

PS - I have no issues with chicken backs, if that's what you think is best.

delete .... see below

"My question is: Would it be possible to phase out the kibble completely, and substitute a raw meal-say at lunch-and still feed THK the other 2 meals?"

You're feeding four meals now. This makes three.

Why not just feed four small meals of THK with chicken backs?

If you went that way, then:

2 cups any THK but Preference (measured dry) would be about half her day's food requirement per the THK charts here: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/learn/how-to-feed/

Half of her day's raw diet (real raw, I mean .... like RMBs and such) would be about a pound (her full day of raw would be about 2 pounds at her present weight and age).

So the 2 cups of Force (measured dry) and one pound of backs would be a reasonable starting formula.

I'd rather spread this among four meals and I'd rather spread out the RMBs (the backs) rather than give just-THK meals and just-RMB meals for this dog.

If it ends up that it's not chicken backs you get, you'll want to post back, because I'm predicating this on the raw part being pretty well balanced (calcium to phosphorus) on its own.

I think several regulars here use THK with RMBs, so you may well get more/better
suggestions.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I'd rather spread this among four meals and I'd rather spread out the RMBs (the backs) rather than give just-THK meals and just-RMB meals for this dog.

That actually sounds VERY do-able! Just so I'm totally clear:

Breakfast, lunch, dinner, and bedtime = 1/2 c Force + 1/4 lb chicken back

Should I have the backs ground at first, until she gets used to them?

Can I randomly throw in a raw egg, sardines, yogurt, or cottage cheese, etc? She really enjoys that! (excess weight s not an issue, obviously)

Thanks Connie...You Rock!

Edited by christy mascari (01/09/2013 05:57 PM)
Edit reason: typo

 Quote: christy mascari

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I'd rather spread this among four meals and I'd rather spread out the RMBs (the backs) rather than give just-THK meals and just-RMB meals for this dog.

That actually sounds VERY do-able! Just so I'm totally clear:

Breakfast, lunch, dinner, and bedtime = 1/2 c Force + 1/4 lb chicken back

Should I have the backs ground at first, until she gets used to them?

Can I randomly throw in a raw egg, sardines, yogurt, or cottage cheese, etc? She really enjoys that! (excess weight s not an issue, obviously)

Just to be crystal clear, 1/2 cup Force as measured when dry (before rehydrating).


I was thinking about how much backs usually weigh. They vary a lot (depending on how meaty as well as on the chicken size), but I think they generally weigh somewhere between a third pound and almost a half pound. (They might even go up to a half pound each, but I don't think I've run into that size.)

I probably would not grind them, but of course you can. One problem (at first) is that you want to start with peeled backs, which won't be possible if you have them ground. Maybe you could ask to hold out a few to be your "training RMBs"?

You might think when you look at them that they have scary pointy parts, but the fact is that those pointy parts are more flexible (and easily digested) than the bones in almost any other RMB. Also, dogs aren't as likely (IME) to swallow one whole, hack it back up, and then have another go at it the way they sometimes do with necks. (Necks are smooth and I guess look like an easy slider to some dogs.)

I would guess that cutting them in half might be good for the weights you want, but you'll know better when you have them. (For example, if they weigh a third of a pound each, then one at each of three meals will equal a pound. If they weight closer to a half, then half of one at each of four meals will equal a pound.)

No, you don't want to add any of that other stuff yet, because your first task is to make sure the poops are perfect. So no confusion about extra ingredients until that's all set. (For example, if you see that the poop is a little too dry, you'll post and we'll talk about how to add some muscle meat. It will probably be fine, though, with the THK.)

When you have a history of several days' worth of perfect log poops, then you can start adding small amounts of those foods. (I wouldn't give eggshell with backs because a whole eggshell has enough calcium for 2 pounds of boneless food.)

I'll be interested in what others think about dogs being suspicious of backs unless you grind them. IME, I have definitely run into dogs who had been on kibble for years before I adopted them and who were pretty suspicious of some RMBs, but not really backs. I think some, like thighs, may be suspiciously slippery.

Remember that you will be watching both poop and body condition, because we're estimating the food amounts (as you would be with any food, including kibble).

Update:

I went to the butcher to purchase the chicken backs, only to find out they switched poultry vendors and no longer sell backs. I went to the local grocery stores with "in house" butchers....no luck.

Any tips on how to track down chicken backs? I thought they would be readily obtainable. I live in a large (well, capital at least) city. One of the butchers said to go to a grocery store in "the bad part of town" and they may have them-Not my first choice.

This is something I would really like to do for my dog, but keep running into brick walls. Are there any online vendors? I searched and didn't find any. I am trying to get the backs before I run out of kibble, so I don't have to buy another bag. (about another week)

As always, thank you for your guidance!