I recently met 2 different dogs with a very interesting characteristic. They would follow me off leash in the city, with lots of distractions and they were never trained to do so.

Why do some dogs just do this without any kind of training and even more interesting, is there any general characteristics that one could look for when the puppy is 1-3 months old that can lead to a dog that later in life is a follower by nature?

In theses specific examples of two different dogs in two different houses these dogs were living with other dogs and the other dog was dominant over them.

Like this?

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=29062&page=1

LOL


To answer your question (partially), I think this following depends a lot more on the human leader than on the puppy's personality when young. JMO, though. I think most dogs will follow a leader who is a LEADER by nature (much more so than a dog being a follower by nature).

But I know the puppy experts will have better responses, Jose. (I'm not one.)

I think a lot depends on the individual dog's personality & temparment. I also think that the human leader has to be a leader.

My male as a puppy from 7 weeks old was very independent. He could be out in the yard or field & could care less if I went out of sight. He would not even look for me...whereas all my other male GSD pups would start to look for me the second that I went out of sight.

Yet as an adult dog...he is a velcro dog. And always has an eye on me no matter where we are & stays relatively close when we are out & about. In the house he is usually usually in the same room & often right behind me if I go downstairs or move from room to room. Can't count how many times I have turned around & tripped over him.


My female & 2 other other males that I have had have always been pretty independent in many ways from pups on. But they would keep an eye on me & the males would look for me if I went out of sight as pups, the female could care less, she was very independent & still is. (but yet she is a very bidable dog) As adults they're definitely NOT velcro type dogs in any way. Although my girl will often be in the same room with me, she doesn't usually follow me around like he does.

Although, as adult dogs, I think that it is hard to know how much of this is training & how much is just the dog....as many of us do a great deal of advanced training, beyond the usual pet owner training. I have working GSDs.

I just think that some dogs are 'clingy' with their human & other just are not.

I don't think that you can really predict what a pup will be like as an adult. You can see certain traits etc in a pup & try to nurture those traits, but there are way too many variables that will effect the final result.

You could take 2 identical pups & they could be very different as adults based on the experiences, exposures, socialization etc that will go through on the way to adulthood.

I'm by no means a puppy expert. But there are some personality tendencies that can be observed from a pretty young age in a pup that will give you a clue to the dog's temperament.

Being "people-focused" and "willingness to follow" are a couple of the traits I specifically look for in a pup, along with confidence and curiosity.

Cinco (the funny-looking one below) was a rescue pup I adopted from the Humane Society. Before I selected him, I asked to spend about an hour with him in a room by myself, which they allowed. I put the pup down on the floor, then walked to the other side of the room and stood in the corner and turned my back to him. I was looking to see if he was particularly interested in engaging with people (versus sniffing objects in the room, or playing alone, etc.)

He immediately ran over to me and began trying to engage with me (which I kept ignoring), moving to a different corner...he followed me and continued trying to play by tugging at my shoelaces.

I kept moving around the room, and he kept following (even though I wasn't really doing any active engagement with him--no toys or food or baby talk.) So it was pretty easy to tell after a few minutes that this pup was eager to engage with a human, and had a lot self-confidence. He seemed really interested in things like me whistling, clapping, and didn't startle when I dropped a folding chair on the floor.

Some puppies willingly submit to being held belly-up like holding a baby in your arms--that's a clue to their general compliance, especially if you can get them to make eye contact in this position. You can also pick the pup up off the floor and let the legs dangle and see how long they will hold still (or if they protest immediately).

It's kind of a balance (for me) between a pup that will easily offer submission, and yet displays a healthy amount of self-confidence.

I wouldn't select:
a puppy that sits in the corner alone.
A puppy that is more interested in litter mates than me.
A puppy that won't take a toy or treat from my hand.
A puppy that doesn't instinctively seek attention.
A puppy that won't (eventually) settle when held.

In my experience, those are all pretty good clues that you've got a puppy you can work with.

BTW--I'm selecting puppies as candidates to be active house dogs. Somebody selecting a pup as a working dog or sport dog will likely have different criteria.

In my early college days in the 60s in Denver everyone had big dogs and no one used a leash. None of these dogs were trained to do anything and a few just got lost. But most of us had dogs that would follow us on our bikes to the big supermarket and sit outside while we shopped, sit outside of the classroom building while we were in lecture, etc. They became street smart, they didn't seem to fight. When we took them home our parents had a fit because these dogs slept on furniture and did lots of other naughty behaviours .
I think it was the amount of time we spent with these dogs and the fact that we were always moving, going to friends houses, going camping, doing something, the dogs just went along and adapted. I'd never act this way today but as an adolescent that's how it was. If the dogs survived our "hippie" upbringing they were confident, calm and would follow you anywhere.

Yes, Betty, you are right about all that. I think life was just easier & less complicated then. Also a lot less people around. Not everywhere over populated, like today.

I can remember my collie, Queenie, following me on my bike, riding to the beach on Saturday & Sundays to meet friends, play ball & walk on the beach. Although I did do a lot of training with her & entered her in some dog shows...she was 1st & foremost my companion. She slept on my bed with me & followed me everywhere.

Lots of very useful contributes here. Thank you guys.

In the examples I was talking about, both dogs are owned by people that do not do formal training, that do not read or care a lot about dog training, so I assume it has to do with the dog personality.

Tracy Collins, your suggestions are very, very interesting.
I wonder if those characteristics maintain to adultwood in most cases. In other words, if they do, those would be very important "tests" to do to get the a puppy that is more "compatible" with the owner.

 Quote: Jose Miguel Gome

Tracy Collins, your suggestions are very, very interesting.
I wonder if those characteristics maintain to adultwood in most cases. In other words, if they do, those would be very important "tests" to do to get the a puppy that is more "compatible" with the owner.

Well, I'm a believer in puppy temperament testing, but it only tells you about potential--not a guarantee of anything. A great puppy could be ruined by neglect or abuse, and lots of great dogs started out as shy or fearful pups. So there you go.

It's also true that puppies "perform" differently on a given day, or time of day. Two of mine I visited 4 or 5 times on different days while they were still at the breeders. After a few interactions, you can get a pretty good idea of personality. Lots of breeders do some kind of testing--and they know their pups better than anyone.

For most ordinary dog owners, selecting a puppy with a natural affinity for human interaction, and one that willingly submits to leadership makes the job much easier. Shy or fearful pups, or overly independent ones are just more work.

Most of my dogs have been ACD's and I currently have a BC. These breeds tend to follow their owner. I am watching my husband putting out round bales with the tractor right now and both dogs are following him. This is a trait that, in my opinion, is a breed characteristic for these 2 breeds. That is not to say that every pup will have this trait, and environment can most definitely influence this trait.

As for selection, spend time interacting and observing the litter. One of the males in my BC's litter was untrainable, totally unsociable. When I observed the litter, he did not pay attention to me except to make sure he knew where not to be. Not sure what was decided to do with that dog.


Even if a dog is not born this way, good pack leadership would establish this behavior. Training is the key to success!