from http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=33034#372189

 Quote: Julie Sloan

I do not know the answers to the allergy questions. We will talk in the morning. It's later there. I do know that they told her to take him completely off beef as that is something that a lot of dogs are allergic to. he hasn't had beef in a few months as long as she is being careful to not let him have any in anything else. I do not think he gets his feet wiped all the time unless it's raining. Mom had back surgery and doesn't do a lot of unnecessary bending. I think he gets weekly baths. I know when I was there to take care of her after the surgery I had to bathe him. I remember thinking, geez I'm glad my rottie doesn't need baths so often. :-)

I saw that they said to use liver as a mineral food, and only to use chicken liver for half. That would be something to work around if she doesn't want to give him beef. I have to understand this completely because she is going to count on me to tell her what to do, and it's going to seem overwhelming at first for her. I was overwhelmed until you all shared this. J

 Quote: Julie Sloan

flea preventative I am not sure about. I know she uses something, he doesn't get fleas, but I can't remember what. he refuses to eat anything, so meds of any kind are tough and have to be forced. I will ask that too.

If you will read pages 1 and 2 here http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=33020&page=1 you will be miles ahead.


1. Food is the least likely to be what he is allergic to, but what are the symptoms?

2. No sign of fleas does NOT mean "no fleas"


If you will answer here all the questions we asked at http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=33020&page=1 , then I betcha we can point you toward MUCH more productive moves than "they told her to take him completely off beef as that is something that a lot of dogs are allergic to."

GP vets are not derm vets.

Beef is one of the top four food allergens for dogs, because it is one of the top four most-eaten foods for dogs.

But for allergies:

Number one is flea saliva.

Number two is environmental/inhalant.

Number three, weighing in at less than 10% of dogs' allergies, is food.

Is there any seasonal spike or relief in the itching?

Is there any time of day that's worse?

Does he have any itching at the base of the tail or along the backbone?

Back shins?

Any itching of ear-flaps?

Does he rub his face on furniture or the carpet?

What areas of the body seem to itch besides the paws? Tell us exactly, such as "the muzzle around the lips" or "around the eyes" or "the back shins."

Does he have anal gland issues? Does he scoot?

Does he have G.I. issues (like maybe soft poops)? Does he have frequent bowel movements? Gas? Any vomiting?

Has he ever had an ear infection?

Does he lick and bite the paws? Is it red and inflamed between the toes? Is there any odor or debris?

Has he EVER had fleas that you know of?

Does he ever break skin when scratching?

I will have these answers by the end of the day. Mom is at the doctor.

Ok, hold-up on Mom and I getting each other on the phone.

bentley hasn't had fleas as long as Mom has had him. We got him at the pound at about a year old.

At first Mom said his itching starts when it gets hot, but then she said she gave him meds a month ago, so it seems it isn't a summer thing. Mom is getting older and can be a bit confusing at times, so just keep that in mind. I questioned her as much as I could. She said he has been better for the last approx 6 weeks that he went on the origen.

Location of itching is belly, ears, and under neck. No where else. he does scratch himsels open under the neck, and until he is just red as can be on belly.

Does not rub face, does not lick paws unless he gets something on them. if his hair gets long on his feet, he will chew at it until it's cut.

He has terrible anal gland issues. Mom has contemplated having them removed. he scoots, a lot. he is worse if they cut this hair too short there.

he does not have any GI issues except vomiting, and he does that pretty often. he threw up 3 times Sunday, a yellow color.

No ear infections.

his meds when he starts itching bad enough is temaril. he goes through a cycle of the meds and Mom says he will not itch then for about a month or so.

I think that answers all of them. :-)

Well, those seem like maybe food issues after all. (Still true that most dog allergies are not food, but of course 10% or so are indeed food.)

Where is the itch/scratch on ears? Flaps or inside or edges of flaps?

Have scrapings been done? Ears and all itch spots?


Was it real vomit (with food in it) or yellow frothy bile-type stuff?

What does the vet say about the frequent vomiting?


I almost don't know where to start asking. Maybe with breaking skin, because I'm worried that he is going to get infected from that .....

You are describing some stuff that might suggest food intolerance/sensitivity (vomiting, anal glands, where he has the itches). No elimination diet ever done, right?

Did you know that Temaril-P is a steroid with antihistamine?

He is being cycled through a med (possibly being prescribed for the skin itching and the anal gland inflammation) that might aggravate calcium oxalate formation. (But I totally get the need to stop that itch cycle.) (And I don't actually know whether the level of steroids in Temaril-P aggravates stone forming, but it sure popped out.)

The cause of the itch and the anal inflammation is crucial info, IMO.



Temaril-P can also cause vomiting. But he hasn't had the Temaril for 6 weeks?


This poor little guy.

Maybe a vet visit with someone (you?) along with a piece of paper, a list of questions, and a pencil.

I'll get back on the phone with her tomorrow. I would love to get him to my vet, but I am 750 miles away and not going back until summer. When she said the itching goes away after meds, my first thought was steroids. Geez.

I will try really hard to find out if either of his vets, (Mom just went to a new one when the old one wouldn't do anything about him hating to have his back rubbed and pulling his hair out there that turned out to be the bladder stones.), will get on the phone to do a consult with me. Mine will call me back within a couple hours. Surely one of them will.

Guarantee you that no scrapings were done. I wonder how I can find her a good vet there from down here. It's extraordinarily frustrating to try to help with anything from this far away, especially when I am going up against what the vets are telling her. But right now she is frustrated and just spent $600 on a surgery when she lives on social security and a part time job so she is pretty open to suggestions but not a lot of money to spend.

She doesn't let me help financially at all, but I did explain tonight that if we could fix it, then there wouldn't be all the maintenance money for meds and vet trips. I know he has gotten anal glands infected and bladder infections, but for skin, Mom keeps on top of not letting that get bad. She gives him meds before it gets bad, and she keeps him super clean.

Btw, she does not wash his feet off unless they are dirty or it's raining after a trip outside.

I don't know where to start either. J

What are you telling her that's against what the vets say? Just the home-cooked diet?
But if a vet ignored symptoms of bladder stones .... how much faith can she really be putting into that vet?


Oh, gosh, several of these urgent issues would be clearer to a derm or allergy vet (itchy ears and belly, anal gland inflammation) ..... even if a consultation could be done, and then a talk with you while your mother is there or something like that .....

Did she switch to cooked eggs for now? Did the dog vomit on that?

(Some of this new info really is sounding like a possible food sensitivity or intolerance, even an allergy, as I mentioned above. But "don't eat beef" isn't the answer. His butt, his itch areas, his vomiting.... )

And some is kind of external-parasite-sounding. (But also food-allergy possible, too.)

This new info if it's all correct doesn't sound much like the usual atopy symptoms. It's all so much, and points in two or three directions, for me. (And of course I'm not a vet or anything anyway.)


" I know he has gotten anal glands infected and bladder infections, but for skin, Mom keeps on top of not letting that get bad. She gives him meds before it gets bad, and she keeps him super clean. " ..... But he is breaking skin, and also we need to find out if Temaril-P then contributes to his stone-forming.

Maybe something will pop out more clearly in the morning. Maybe the idea that a specialist would help avert rounds of meds that are potentially damaging will strike your mother as a good investment ..... I understand how hard the money-from-children thing is .....

What pops out after a night's sleep is still "derm vet." Sometimes such a vet specialist is called an allergy/dermatology specialist.

A specialist will look at the dog and his history and see patterns.

Several of the things you found out by calling your mother point to food. Quitting beef isn't a fix for food problems. (Only a strict trial, or elimination diet, is. This is very strict, very methodical, very structured. It's not quitting beef or switching from one commercial food to another. PLUS he has the bladder stones to factor in when designing such a diet.)


But they also all cross over to the other (top two) allergies, too.


Also, it will be good to find out if his ears itch all over or if it's the margins of the ear flaps, and if those ear-flap margins look raggedy. But what I was thinking last night about scrapings .... I just don't know.

Food allergies usually have a couple of these (or more than a couple): facial itching; foot or leg chewing; belly itching; recurring ear infections.

Also, some dogs with food allergies or sensitivities have GI distress and/or anal sac issues.