This thread is a continuation of a previous thread located at
http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=33009&page=1
where my pup was having some issues with Dog reactivity. I was getting so much great advice that I decided to make another thread so that the information could be more easily searchable.

To recap. Yesterday was day one of marker training

 Quote: Jevon Brookes

So, day one working with marker training and Keeva did great. Me? Not so much. I charged the mark in the house. My mark being yes. The hardest part was making sure I said yes the exact same way. In the house was fine, when we went outside I completely forgot how I said yes in the house. I may get a clicker instead but if I want to go back to "yes" would that confuse her?

We came across a few dogs on our walk. She was much more easily redirected. All I would say was "nope" and her ears went back and she turned her head. I think she knew I had more treats. We were in a park jumping some benches and there was a dog that was about 20 feet away. With some encouragement I was able to keep her engaged.

Overall I made a bunch of mistakes today but Keeva did great. Hopefully I didn't confuse her too much.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I agree with Duane. Yes, you can use a clicker too, but no rush. And an upbeat "yes" is all you need.

"We were in a park jumping some benches and there was a dog that was about 20 feet away. With some encouragement I was able to keep her engaged."

On leash, right?

She was on a 6' lead with a prong collar and the e-collar. The e-collar was on mainly to get her used to wearing it and to use the handy light that it has on it. It was kinda dark and raining so I wanted make sure we seen when we walked.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Jevon Brookes

So, day one working with marker training and Keeva did great. Me? Not so much. I charged the mark in the house. My mark being yes.

Want to describe it?

Did you say "yes" and then give the treat? Make sure not to combine the "yes" with the hand movement?

You might want to practice in front of a mirror to see if you are moving your hand toward the bait bag before you have finished saying "yes."

Then after some repeats, you said "yes" and she looked for the treat, so you knew it was charged (loaded)?

I made sure I said "yes" before I rewarded her, but thinking back I may have moved too quickly a couple times. There were a few times where I had some treats in my hand so that I could reward her more quickly but this might have been a mistake. I'm going be more conscious about keeping my hands to my side.

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

Jevon,
timing is a very hard thing to get right at first.
I think we've all been there, our timing has been off and things go downhill after that.
As Connie pointed out, make sure that you aren't making a move towards the treat bag or moving your hands when you say "yes", wait a split second then reach for the bag. Otherwise the dog is going to read your hand movement as the mark.

Keep the sessions short and always end on a positive note.

Your dog will eventually learn that the word "yes" is his cue.
The inflection doesn't have to be the exact same every single time. Up beat?...yes!...exact same tone? not so much.

I can be on the phone and say "yes" in my phone conversation and his ears perk up. He doesn't just recognize the tone of the word...it's the actual word he reacts to now.

I'm glad to hear that it doesn't have to be the exact same everytime. I was beginning to think that was going to be impossible. It was hard enough not to give an excited "yes" when she did something I was proud of her for. We'll keep working at it.

One question. Is desensitizing and marker work similar to the Pavlov method of training? We were going to work with a trainer that was going to use those techniques but at the time it was way to expensive.

Even excited isn't strictly necessary. Pleased and upbeat is what I go for.

I believe that trainers who call their method "Pavlovian" are using positive reward-based training but not necessarily marker training.

BTW, it's never bad to back up. You can load your marker again after practicing in front of a mirror.

"I can be on the phone and say "yes" in my phone conversation and his ears perk up. He doesn't just recognize the tone of the word...it's the actual word he reacts to now."


Yes, this is how keen the dog will become to hear that marker word. This is also why we choose a word we don't use a lot already (like "good, which for me would be very confusing because I was already saying it to the dogs a lot before we started marker work).

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Even excited isn't strictly necessary. Pleased and upbeat is what I go for.

I believe that trainers who call their method "Pavlovian" are using positive reward-based training but not necessarily marker training.

Ok that's what I figured

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

BTW, it's never bad to back up. You can load your marker again after practicing in front of a mirror.

Yeah, I was getting to excited in saying my "yes" when we were outside. I am going to go back and practice then load the marker again.

bump

Thanks for the bump Connie.

This week I have been focusing on Loading the Mark. I practiced saying "yes" in the mirror and I feel as though I was about to give a consistent "yes".

I started working with Keeva and the mark with some success. I wanted until she was hungry before we worked. After about saying yes about 15 times she started to lose a little interest. When I saw that, I just said "done" and ended our session.

I started the session again with some different treats. She seemed more interested in those treats but lost interest quickly again. I ended the session again. This time I took the treats out again and threw a few at her to make her chase them and build some drive. We then started again and after about a minute I ended it for the night.

We did have a great training session in the park this weekend. I took her to a dog park, but don't worry I didn't take her where there were other dogs. The park is situated where there are two dog pens (one for large dogs and one for small dogs) and a large grassy park outside of them. I took her to the grassy area far enough where she couldn't see the other dogs, but she could smell them.

I had her on a long line working the come, and stay commands. She did great. There were a few times where she get distracted but I was able to redirect here.

There were also a couple times where she started to whine. I never know what to do when she starts to whine. I try to redirect here but that doesn't always work. Do I ignore it or correct it?

I was able to read more of the Marker Training e-book as I was traveling this week. (that article is located here if anyone needs it http://leerburg.com/pdf/markers-clickers.pdf)

I'm learning that I basically have to start over with her training. The way we were taught before was command and a correction if the action wasn't performed. Marker training seems to be completely different. I am slightly confused about a couple of sections but I'll get more into what those are later.

"I had her on a long line working the come, and stay commands. She did great. There were a few times where she get distracted but I was able to redirect here."


Sounds like she's coming along nicely.
Just remember NEVER add time, distance, and distractions all at the same time. When you add time the go back to a shorter distance. When you add distance then shorten the time.
Start over again with both time (shorter) and distance (closer) when distractions are added!

Thanks for the advice. She's doing well despite all of the mistakes I am making. I'm just glad to know now that her lack of growth is because of me and not because she can't be helped.

Its uncharacteristically cold here today so we'll be working indoors. I'm going to try and work the sit command with marking tonight. One concept I haven't grasped as yet with marker training is not giving a command first and the pros and cons of luring. If I don't lure the dog then how will the dog know what I'm asking it to do? I'm going to go back and review that section tonight before starting.

You don't have a marker video, right?

http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/130/Free_Shaping_vs_Luring


About not naming a command until you love it:

Let me say it this way: The dog doesn't speak people-speak. What does a word (a command) mean to him before you have taught the behavior? Nothing at all. Babble. You need the behavior before you name it and associate it with the behavior and ask for it by that name, right?

Break it down even more. What if you name it when it's mediocre and sloppy and then associate that word with the behavior. What are you then asking her for? The mediocre sloppy behavior that you named and commanded.