I would like to hear your opinion on Dr. Ian Dunbar approach to puppy raising a socialization.

There are certainly lots of things that match the articles and DVDs that we can find here at Leerburg, but I want to focus on the parts that I find divergent from one another. Why? Because I read both opinions/ideas and both make a lot of sense.

Dr. Dunbar did research on puppy development and critical periods to acquire specific skills important for their socialization. After that he has dedicated his life to dog training, specially puppy classes, adolescent dogs socialization, etc. He is not as focused as Ed and Cindy on working dogs, but more into sociable family dogs.

Here are some points that I find different on Dr. Dunbar's approach:
Strangers, specially man and children should give the puppy high value food rewards. The more people, the better;
The puppy should perform behaviors on cue for every family member and even the strangers we are "using" to socialize them;
Dogs should be socialized and interact with other dogs in puppy classes, a skill that is fundamental to make them learn bite inhibition and be friendly to other dogs;
Puppies can be taught to either go potty outside or on an inside potty place that we define, specially if you live in an apartment and it takes too long to get him outside or if the vet has not cleared him for outside walks yet;
Things that we "don't like" like barking, chasing squirrels, etc. can be putt on cue and used to reinforce other less frequent behaviors (Premack effect);
All the food is given in either training or chewtoys, so that chewing toys prevents destructive behavior, barking, etc.

Let me know your ideas and thoughts about this.

For those of you who don't know who Dr. Dunbar is, check this .


Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/30/2013 08:25 PM)
Edit reason: spelling correction per O.P.

Looking forward to reading the replies on this one. My experience with dog 'trainers' and dog trainers is that there's a lot of BALONEY floating around out there and a lot of messed up dogs because of it.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/22/2013 10:21 AM)
Edit reason: edited for swearing

It's actually "Dunbar" (in case anyone is looking up info).

He's a British vet and behaviorist (who has lived here for decades) who founded the APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers).

He's well-known for being pretty dismissive of pack structure in domestic dogs.

This page has outlines of many or most of his behavior-problem solutions:
http://www.siriuspup.com/behavior_problems.html#

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

It's actually "Dunbar" (in case anyone is looking up info).

He's a British vet (who has lived here for decades) who founded the APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers).

Connie, can you please correct my original post and make the name correct?

I am sorry, but English is not my first language and i make some writing mistakes, specially with names.

 Quote: Jose Miguel Gome

Connie, can you please correct my original post and make the name correct?

I am sorry, but English is not my first language and i make some writing mistakes, specially with names.

I corrected the O.P., but I don't remember how (if I ever knew) to correct the original title. That is, I can change the title post by post, but not permanently. I'll find out in the morning when LB folks are in the office how to change the title permanently.

Any video of him training a dog Jose?

One thing that's probably important to understand is the Premack Principle's relationship to Operant Conditioning, which is marker training's engine.

David Premack posited that high-probability behaviors can be used to reinforce low-probability behaviors.

What it means (to me) is that a behavior that is likely, or probable, given free choice and without regard to the trainer's (or researcher's) intervention, or let's say a "preferred" (by the subject) behavior, can be used to reinforce a behavior that isn't so "preferred" by the subject (and so less probable).

In very simple terms, a delicious reward can be used to reinforce a behavior that the subject doesn't find so delicious (maybe "sit" or "down").

"No dessert until you eat your broccoli" is also the Premack Principle.

I didn't watch the clip, so I'm not sure from what you mentioned how he talks about using the Premack Principle. Maybe using what we think of as distractions/irritations as rewards for wanted behaviors (wanted by us, I mean)? That would be limited, if so, I think, because there are lots of distractions/irritations that I don't want to use as rewards.

For example, I don't want squirrel-chasing to be a reward in my dog's life because of the inherent dangers where I live for a dog who is chasing squirrels.

Thank you Connie.

 Quote: steve strom

Any video of him training a dog Jose?

There are a couple of them on Youtube. Example.

However, even more pertinent is how he handles his class.
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

One thing that's probably important to understand is the Premack Principle's relationship to Operant Conditioning, which is marker training's engine.

David Premack posited that high-probability behaviors can be used to reinforce low-probability behaviors.

What it means (to me) is that a behavior that is likely, or probable, given free choice and without regard to the trainer's (or researcher's) intervention, or let's say a "preferred" (by the subject) behavior, can be used to reinforce a behavior that isn't so "preferred" by the subject (and so less probable).

In very simple terms, a delicious reward can be used to reinforce a behavior that the subject doesn't find so delicious (maybe "sit" or "down").

"No dessert until you eat your broccoli" is also the Premack Principle.

I didn't watch the clip, so I'm not sure from what you mentioned how he talks about using the Premack Principle. Maybe using what we think of as distractions/irritations as rewards for wanted behaviors (wanted by us, I mean)? That would be limited, if so, I think, because there are lots of distractions/irritations that I don't want to use as rewards.

For example, I don't want squirrel-chasing to be a reward in my dog's life because of the inherent dangers where I live for a dog who is chasing squirrels.

I totally agree with your understanding of the Premack principle.

Maybe chasing squirrels is not the best example, because of the modern busy streets and its potential danger.

But what about rewarding your dog for coming by allowing her to go play with other dogs?

What is your opinion on this "your puppy should meet and interact with as many people and dogs as possible"?

I've had experience with giving dogs what they want as a reward. When Shelby (former feral) gets worried or scared of something and then shows bravery by attempting to investigate the scary thing we reward her by allowing her to jump on us while we practically fawn over her. Jumping on people is not allowed except for Shelby's reward and she LOVES it. It definitely reinforces her good behavior and creates a happier mood in her head.

Rivers special reward is to behave by remaining calm and then we both act like nut jobs and get all that pent up energy out as a happy way to celebrate being calm.

Works for us, and it's worked for several other dogs I've cared for.

Even Murphy the cat gets rewarded with 'bad' behavior for being a good kitty.