Hi all,

I have just recently watched the establishing pack structure with the family pet and had some questions about this social isolation

First of all i have an adopted 1.5 yo female beagle who hasn't really been trained. She is very afraid of loud noises and cars and is constantly seeking attention. This makes its quite difficult to walk near a main road so at this stage i am sticking to fairly quiet streets.

I have now put her in social isolation as per the video. Now i have a few questions regarding this.

Generally she is very quiet up until i either go near the create or have just left the area where the crate is (my garage). Then she seems to go a bit nuts trying to claw her way out of it.

How do i get around this? I know there is meant to be no training during this phase so should i just the sit/stay command or no command? or say nothing at all and ignore till i get the behavior i want? Am i meant to treat her when i get the behavior i want? no no treats at all?

The next part is when do i know that my beagle is ready to move to the next phase of social isolation where i can pat and give some training?

Thanks in advance!
Darrell

Does the crate have to be in the garage? Is this going to be where it stays?

Why?

How long have you had the dog?

hi thanks for the quick reply!

The crate doesn't need to be inside the garage i suppose, however i have another dog who is an outside dog and this was the only way i could isolate her.

We never let our dogs inside the house.

The crate will eventually move outside when she has learned to calm down.

I have had the beagle for about 2 weeks now, but i have only had her in isolation for a few days. I stupidly treated her like my other dog for a few days before i started seeing issues occur such as non stop attention seeking and trying to climb all over my other dog.

 Quote: Darrell Kan

The crate will eventually move outside when she has learned to calm down.

Darrell, what are your future expectations of how these two dogs should live?

Can you explain how you utilize a crate outside?

Just my 2 cents. Darrell, I think there is a difference here in what is actually meant by having the dog in so called isolation, and a NILIF concept.

To me, it means that the dog is put in a crate but still near you, as dogs are social animals and want to be near their handlers. It means that the dog is looking to you for everything it needs, and a bond is created from this.

I think for me personally, keeping this dog out in the garage and not near anyone is too isolated.
I would think that this kind of isolation could actually cause you more problems, crate anxiety specifically.
I can't help but think that this dog will really hate being put in its crate, and hate being completely cut off from any contact at all. I think it's counter productive.
You want the dog to love his crate and learn to be calm because you are there, near by, where it can see you.
Because the dog is not remotely close to you, this type of isolation is not beneficial, and that bond will not be created.
How much time is given to this dog daily? I think the reason the dog is not calm is because of this type of isolation.
Just my own opinion.

I agree 100% with Joyce. This is paramount:

" .... keeping this dog out in the garage and not near anyone is too isolated."

and


"Because the dog is not remotely close to you, this type of isolation is not beneficial, and that bond will not be created."


And in fact, Joyce's whole post. I hope you can modify this arrangement right away.


Also, it will help to understand the goals Tammy asked about. How do you plan/expect/hope for the dogs to live in the future?

 Quote:

I have had the beagle for about 2 weeks now, but i have only had her in isolation for a few days. I stupidly treated her like my other dog for a few days before i started seeing issues occur such as non stop attention seeking and trying to climb all over my other dog.

I don't know whats on the video Darrell, but I kinda think the time for isolation may have passed. I think what you may find now is that this is going to add frustration that is going to build on these things you don't want.

I'd use the crate for management now, set a schedule of bringing her out at set times for training, playing,excercise, etc, so that she learns to be satisfied by what you want. But keep her where she's going to live, not closed up in the garage.

this is what i have to say about it . . .

what are you actually trying to accomplish with any aspect of your training ?

social isolation is not meant to be a way of life , but a measure you take when you have specific objectives in mind .

we don't know what your specific life parameters are , but off the top of my head i'd have used the need to be near you to build the engagement with the dog .

there is no hard template / schedule to be followed to get a certain result . everything you see in the dvd's are intended as guidelines that you apply as your particular situation dictates .

given what you have said about this dog , i'd re-think " social isolation " and how to apply it .

Appreciate all the replies guys i was thinking that this was causing some separation anxiety in her. But i did see it in the video so i thought it was necessary.

Apologies but this will be a rather large reply. Id rather give you all the information then leave you guessing.

So my other dog Andy is an 8 year old male bull arab(greyhound/pointer/bullterrier mix) who we've had for 5 years (another rescue). He currently spends all of his time outside. In the morning before work i normally walk/play with him and feed him. During the rest of the day he is happy to play in the backyard and sleeps most of of the day. He is not crate trained and lives in his kennel or sleeps on his bed.

When i come home normally we play and walk him for a couple of hours and feed him dinner and then he is happy to sleep until morning.

These two dogs have met before. When we first got her we just let her run around and interact with my other dog. They seemed to get along ok, however she keeps trying to dominate him by jumping up onto him and trying to put her head on top of his. She doesnt respect him and will always try to steal his food.

Millie, is our beagle. She is full of energy and never stops running around. During the day she doesnt really sleep much or even stay still. She will be running around the yard sniffing everything. Its like she doesnt know how to relax. Millie is also scared of everything! I dont know what her previous owners did but she scared of anything new. For example when she saw stairs for the first time she was freaked out and scared. Shes still scared of cars and anything that makes noise.


She is constantly seeking attention but jumping at windows and barking and will not stop for hours. Lucky we have neighbours who understand.

She also knows basic commands like sit and stay which she chooses to ignore most of the time. Im 100% sure she knows these commands.

So what should i do from here? should i release her into the backyard?

i do not want to bring her into the house to set the expectation that she will be allowed inside. I also do not want Andy to know that she is allowed inside and he isnt. I feel its unfair.

End of the day what i would want is both my dogs to get along and live happily in the backyard.

Appreciate the feedback guys... hopefully we can either fix the dog and/or the owner.

If the hyper dog was the submissive one, I'd take a wild guess that maybe you would have a chance. However, as you describe the two, I don't think Andy would ever get the quiet time that he seems to cherish so much. I envision him being pestered and bullied constantly.

ETA; I know a few ppl that have inside and outside dogs. The dogs have never known any other way, and jealousy is not a factor. If anything, the inside dogs want to be outside.
If it were me, I'd want the lazy dog inside and the pest outside.

This whole arrangement seems twisted, IMO. Are you sure that this is the long road that you want to travel?

Edited by Duane Hull (02/01/2013 05:04 PM)
Edit reason: eta