The furry alligator transport plan got me thinking.

This is no slight to all those people with wonderful caring hearts for dogs, but high drive (big) dogs don't need to be among the general dog owning population. It never seems to end well for the dogs or the people. These high drive dogs seem to be pretty rare I am starting to understand why the members of this forum go to great lengths to protect these lines. I don't mean breeds specifically but dogs that show the rare quality of 'intensity and focus' in their life.

Hank and I meet lots of people now on our outings and I always get lots of reactions (mostly shock) and lots of questions because of his breed and good training (for a worthless hound). But what always seems to be the biggest surprise is that I can have so much control over such a powerful animal,"is that even possible?" I get asked a lot. They can't believe that I really spend 20+hrs a week working with a dog, and are even more shocked when I say I have too, it's the only way to be sure I can live with him.

Even when I go lurk over on the Rhodesian Ridgeback forum most of the problems they have are the typical 'pet' dog issues. (I do sometimes envy them). And on those rare occasions when 'the hunter comes out' their reactions seem to be 'clamp it down', what a shame!

So I have a high drive dog. I've come to an understanding with it. Hank was a mouthly little s'*@*, who turned into a powerful confident dog that I have to exercise (in excess of 4+ miles) more than 3 times a week. I have to work OB with him constantly and have to be ever vigilant when strangers are around. Because he never 'turns it off'.

For instance last Saturday, after spending half the day with me out at the family farm (150 acres) Hank was laid out in the back seat napping. When we pulled into the neighborhood he popped up ready to be home. Well I stopped at a neighbors house to talk to him and he walked up to the car. Hank gives him a 'I'm thinking you might be a tasty snack' growl through the open window. I told him to 'leave it' rolling up the window but by this point my neighbor is backing up (smart move). But by this time Hank, my lap dog who will lay around looking for a belly rub, has turned into a K9 wanting to weigh-Leigh my neighbor through the window. (A good example of this intensity is here:Muzzle fighting dog ) I was truly concerned about his safety and whether the window would hold! You have not experienced a high drive dog until you've had one bark 6 inches from your ear making your hair move from the force of his voice. (My ear rang for 20 minutes after that!)

But as soon as we pulled into the drive and got out, he let a stress shake out, and we walked into house doing the wiggle but thing looking for a pet from my little girls. UGh.

HIGH
DRIVE
DOGS

Are not for the part time dog owner, if you get one and don't want one, work on a plan B before something bad happens. The people here are good folks and will try to help you and the dog.

Ken

I'm a noob when it comes to most of this, but that video shows what looks (to me) like a very dangerous dog that would have ripped that guy's throat out if he wasn't muzzled. Is that dog high drive? Most certainly, I think. However, I think there is a difference between "drive" and "un-controllability."

While my ACD might have high drive compared to most people's pet dog, compared to some of the intense working dogs I see videos of, I don't think he's that high drive. I also don't think high drive is causing your ridgeback's "protective intensity," but I could be wrong.

Also, I know it isn't the point of your post, but do you want to be encouraging (or allowing, rather), such protective behavior uncommanded? Carlin is generally good in the car, but I keep him on a car-harness for his safety, and to make sure he doesn't have access to the hands of gas-station attended or fast-food servers.

Again, I'm a noob so this is just my opinion and I'm interested to hear from more experienced owners.

"HIGH
DRIVE
DOGS

are not for the part time dog owner ..... "



And I would add that
HIGH
DRIVE
DOGS
are not for 99% of pet homes.

There are a zillion suitable pet-quality dogs available, dying for a good home. In far too many cases, literally dying for lack of a home.

HIGH DRIVE DOGS need to go to the right home .... not down the road when it's too late, but immediately.

It just cannot be said often enough.




ETA
Carry on with the discussion of the video and the other aspects of the post; all I wanted to say was that, as Ed says over and over, a high-drive dog is a full-time job and requires the right owner.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/08/2013 04:45 PM)
Edit reason: eta

John, yes and no on the dangerous. My table saw is dangerous, but as long as I only put wood in the sharp spinny thing, everything is a-ok and it cuts wood like a champ.

That dog was being trained to fight, learning to use his muzzle to defeat a decoy. If the muzzle was off, they (the trainers) wouldn't play that game.

(I got that link from one of Ed's examples of muzzle fighting.)
http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=562

Welcome to the world of real K9 training, it only took me a couple of years to wrap my head around it!
I was just trying to show the intensity that can come from a dog that is a HIGH DRIVE DOG. Not a high drive dog if that makes sense.

Hopefully I can find some time later to expand some more. And some other can explain better.

I'm a sponge, I hope this discussion continues so I can learn

High drive and size can be a challange at time.

Harley broke a snap collar at agility class because i was walking to course. I got him a buckel collar, safer. He then broke 2 snaps to get to me. 80# of I want that can be fun and impressive.

I have not done any protection work with Harley other then have him evaluated. He has what it take. I have friends with smaller dogs with crazy high drive dogs and size does change the game. 35# of crazy dog does not drag his owner, generaly, even on a flat collar. My 80# of crazy dog did got a few experience agility people to belly surf as he ran off to me. He has also given a couple black eyes from playing as he is taller and bigger then a BC, they don't expect him to get in their face literaly.

High drive dogs are, for sure, one of those "be careful what you ask for" deals.
That "high drive" is just one of many reasons so many dogs wind up in the pound yet, "IF" you understand them they can be easy to train. NOT FOR BEGINNERS!
I personally wouldn't have anything else but many yrs with terriers probably made me a bit daft between the ears.

I spent the first 35+ years of my life with dogs training them to be calm, submissive pets. When I trained obedience, I sought that calm, methodical, submissive kind of compliance. I shudder when I think back on how many drives I've squashed, and didn't even know that what I was doing had a name ("capping").

My current dog is drivey, though not as drivey as well-bred working line dogs. She has opened a lot of doors for me, led me to new groups of friends, and forced me to take my training and management skills to new levels. I wouldn't trade the experience or my new outlook on working dogs for anything.

It is definitely not for most dog lovers, but now I feel that there is nothing quite as heartwarming as seeing my dog go into a tailspin when I do something as simple as grab my keys or slip on my shoes, though it can be a bit of a pain when she starts pushing me with her muzzle EVERY time I stand up. To see her play soccer with her knucklebone in an attempt to encourage me to play has become a joy, and I can't believe that just five years ago I would have picked up the bone and told her to go chill out.

John: you do own a drivey dog, and Carlin has some excellent drives. Learning to manipulate them will open new doors for you and make you a better trainer/handler.
Drives are different and come in many forms. "Drivey" doesn't apply to just biting dogs. Herding and hunting are driven behaviors. A dog that loves to chase a ball is prey driven, and that is one of the most useful training tools in the working dog world. An agility dog is driven by either the reward he will get at the end of the course, or even solely by the engagement with his handler. The most useful drive my dog has is her food drive.

 Quote: Bob Scott

High drive dogs are, for sure, one of those "be careful what you ask for" deals.
That "high drive" is just one of many reasons so many dogs wind up in the pound yet, "IF" you understand them they can be easy to train. NOT FOR BEGINNERS!

+1

I am always uncertain about whether high drive dogs have a place outside of a working environment at all.

I have always associated them with military, police, search and rescue and security, and I know in areas of high crime, they are a necessity.

I know that a dog with high drive is also a sport dog, but I assume they are with the experienced handler they need, or at least I would hope they are, as the point has been already made here.

As for big dogs... when I walk my crew, I have a combined weight getting on for 30 stone on two coupled leads, and have the daily irritation of other peoples dogs wanting to 'play' and lately I have noticed an increase of powerful breeds in the village; we have gone through the Staffies, the Huskies, and now we are moving toward Boxers and Mastiff mixes.

The other day, a very young, (but ironically!) very big RR came bombing across the field, followed by a young kid and his girlfriend, (pointlessly shouting at him) and I had to go through the usual and well practiced routine, come, sit, wait, then the RR pup started to mount my giant male Boerboel, who was rolling his eyes wildly and curling his lip, but, he stayed in place, they all stayed calm, and when the kid caught up with him, he innocently, but genuinely declared that his dog was just really very friendly.

We had 'the' conversation, and he was a perfectly nice kid, but completely clueless, he told me proudly, he was going to breed this pup, because lots of his friends wanted one.

My long and laboured point being, while irresponsible and ignorant people persist in breeding powerful dogs, regardless of inbred drive, there will be fights and attacks, and my own breed, is not without it's idiots.

I am one of those soft hearted pet homes who knows the potential of these powerful, guardian breeds, who doesn't need to bring out the wrong kind of drive, but have to be ever vigilant against morons who get the wrong advice and encouragement in getting the dog to reach it's natural state, people who should NEVER have been able to buy the bloody animal in the first place

I spend too many nights worrying about unsuitable dogs in unsuitable homes, being subjected to god knows what, I love and respect my dogs, Boerboels and Pointers, beyond reason, but I never lose sight of what they are, and what they are capable of, if only the rest of the dog owning population did - especially now our government is trying to close the 'loophole' that says a dog cannot be put to death for defending it's home and owners on private land.

Give me bloody strength. Sorry, this sort of turned into a rant - I really need to get to my remote Scottish island