Carol Blumlein wrote 02/21/2013 01:41 PM Tail training? #373874 - 02/21/2013 01:41 PM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	I really didn't know how to title this. Ramsey is very good about all grooming...nails, ears, teeth etc. BUT or should I say BUTT, when it comes to bathing his posterior, it is a struggle just to get him to lift his tail!!! He was like this when I got him as a 9 week old. The vet takes his temperature on the gum line since he knows that it upsets Ramsey. He is 13+ months now with a very STRONG tail I have never owned a dog so resistant about this. Any ideas on remedial training?
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Duane Hull wrote 02/21/2013 02:46 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373875 - 02/21/2013 02:46 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	When I got her, Sadie had an issue with her paws being held. I marker trained it with my intermediate bridge. She still doesn't like it, but she will make herself stay calm when I handle her paws. Sadie
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steve strom wrote 02/21/2013 03:05 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373877 - 02/21/2013 03:05 PM
steve strom Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2006 Posts: 4203 Loc: Offline	I'm sure every dog I've owned tucked their tail when I bathed them. I just push my hand under it and scrub, except the Rotts, but that little stub is as tucked as it can be. They get over it. If they try to sit down, I keep one hand under their belly and don't let them. Then after I rinse them, they shake the water off and run around wagging their tail. Go figure.
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Bob Scott wrote 02/21/2013 03:13 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373879 - 02/21/2013 03:13 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	!!!MARKER TRAINING!!! My brother got his Presa when it was 3 yrs old. Nice dog but my brother was told you couldn't touch his nails without a muzzle and using two people. Even the vet and groomers wouldn't touch him unless they could put him out. They were right the first time brother tried so instead of forcing the issue he marker trained the dog. Within a few weeks he was trimming the dog's nails while the dog happily stretched out lying on the ground. Wide awake of course. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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steve strom wrote 02/21/2013 03:35 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373889 - 02/21/2013 03:35 PM
steve strom Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2006 Posts: 4203 Loc: Offline	I'd really like to see someone marker train a dog to raise its tail for a bath. Now that would be something! LOl.
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Carol Blumlein wrote 02/21/2013 09:15 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373894 - 02/21/2013 09:15 PM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	How would the marker training session go? Treat and mark for touching, then again for allowing to hold tail slightly etc.? I began to try that. But somehow I can't find a high value enough treat to make it work. Maybe he needs to be starving!! LOL!
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Duane Hull wrote 02/22/2013 12:29 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373924 - 02/22/2013 12:29 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Connie or others may suggest something similar to what you described, but I found it incredibly easy using my dog's IB. If your IB is rock-solid, it's as simple as (with me, the paw and not the tail) holding it in your hand for a couple of seconds, then marking with the IB. I'd do it while I was laying on the couch and she was curled up on the floor next to me. Once she would let me hold it calmly, I started increasing duration. I also created a "be still" while I was working on duration. Now, I take the paw, and if she starts to pull it back, I simply tell her "be still", and she lets me hold it (still doesn't like it, though). Later on, during a parlor trick session, I taught her a "paw" command. I opted for this over "shake", because, by pointing at the paw I want, she'll give me either. later I may add a "shake" with the right paw. Sadie
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Carol Blumlein wrote 02/22/2013 12:55 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373926 - 02/22/2013 12:55 PM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	Thanks Duane~ BTW what is "IB"? And I will steal your "be still" command. I like it!
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Duane Hull wrote 02/22/2013 04:09 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373941 - 02/22/2013 04:09 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	IB is "intermediate bridge". It is a marker that indicates to the dog to keep doing what it's doing, and is used to add duration to known behaviors. It is covered in the marker training videos. It is not a reward marker, but when the dog knows it, he will expect a reward mark at the completion of the entire exercise. Eventually, with a dog that is fully marker trained, the IB is not necessarily followed by a reward mark, but a release marker. I use "gooood", or "good sit" (or "good..." whatever). My reward marker is "yes", and my release marker Is "okay". Sadie
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Connie Sutherland wrote 02/22/2013 04:30 PM Re: Tail training? [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #373942 - 02/22/2013 04:30 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I too would use an intermediate bridge if I needed duration for this. I haven't, so far. All three are marker-trained to have me lift their tails for bath and for thermometer, and they all keep it up long enough for the necessary operation. But yeah, I can see needing an IB for a dog who wasn't fond of the idea and gets it up and then back down asap. An IB should do it, along with "procedures" level rewards. (Real pieces of bacon, kept in a baggie in the freezer and micro'd when needed to make them nice and smelly, are the extremely high-value reward I use to do the procedure-training most loathsome to that individual dog. Applying something to the eyeball might be it, or maybe extended paw-handling, or ear-flush, or, for this dog, sounds like tail-lifting.)
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