Good afternoon,

In November, Heidi started her protection work but suffered from a ruptured cruciate that put her out of commission until January. The good news, she is stronger than ever and moves with great speed and agility. From january up until last week Heidi has been off at the training school working protection training every other weekend, and progressed very quickly. She has a great solid bite, and will not let go until given the command. Heidi is an extremely friendly dog and takes on new friends pretty quickly. If someone walks into my house that she does not know, she holds ground and barks immediately until I come and tell her what to do. Furthermore, every time a new person is put before her in a suspicious manner she locks in and starts with her defensive barking, she will bite on command as well.

The problem.

After one or two good bites, heidi will either get bored, or assume the person is a friend and won't bite anymore. She also drops her defensive guard towards that person. The moment a new person is introduced, she resumes her defensive behavior and will give a great solid bite on the sleeve. The head trainer asked me to come out with her next time to see if she will behave differently with me handling her, but I am also looking for thoughts on how we can bring about more consistency. Through Heidi's training, the consistent problem is that she learns things extremely fast, perfects it, then gets bored with it. I haven't seen the hesitation in biting, but I am confident it is due to the fact she assumes they are a friend and doesn't want to do it, which prevents an obvious problem.

It sounds like she's been rushed through her foundation. When she doesn't bite well, or refuses to bite, will she engage with pressure? Or will she run? How is her barking in the bark and hold?

I have not seen it in person yet, but under pressure she supposedly just looks at them like they are playing a silly game with her, unless it is a new person. The unknown always gets bit. The bite, bark and hold are outstanding. The one issue with the bark is the on command bark, it isn't quite there yet, and it is something they are still working on.

The issue seems to be New person = defensive barking, and solid bite, friend = game, and she won't bite.

She does not back down or run from anyone, which is why we are a little puzzled. The one thing for certain is that heidi has 0 flight drive, she holds her place, especially when a new person is introduced. It is almost as if she is extremely cocky, and over confident in how tough she is.

So a helper she knows that yells at her, runs into her and hits her with a stick she won't bite?

 Quote: Jeffrey Hill

I have not seen it in person ...

Edited by Connie Sutherland (03/25/2013 02:20 PM)
Edit reason: self-delete

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Jeffrey Hill

I have not seen it in person ...

Thought of that after I posted, lol

I don't know if they were using the stick, but I am jotting that down in my little book right now. I would be very shocked if she didn't bite the stick at the very least, at the bare minimum because its annoying her. But the running and yelling, she will just bark and start wagging her tail. A new person will get bit every single time. There is some shut-off that is occurring when she knows someone and deems them not a threat anymore. Shes about 100 pounds and I remember when she ruptured her cruciate i just figured she was sick because she continued to use the leg and never let out the slightest wimper in pain, even during the vet examination.

It has been a very long time since I have watched protection training and given the nightmare schedule of law school, I have placed her training in the very capable hands of a local k9 academy.

I sent an email about the stick, and will get back to you with information on that.

I got a response, at this stage they are not using the stick. They are doing things differently than I would have expected, considering they train a ton of local working dogs.

at 80-100 feet away, she apparently is making the determination what to do based on whether or not she knows the person acting suspiciously. This makes sense to me though, so I don't really understand the issue with that. Her prey drive is through the roof, which is how they got her biting on to the sleeve real well to start with. It seems that they are using the bite as the reward, and are concerned that too much pressure may cause them not to like the bite.

Thoughts on that methodology would be nice, because I'm not sure what I think about that. Personally, I think it would be the opposite for her, the ramped up pressure may make "the game" that much more exciting.

Just to clarify, this dog is from home protection, not competition. given the crime rate in our neighborhood, the dog is a real asset, but if not properly trained, then a huge liability.

Then she hasn't been taught that the work is serious. I also think her foundation is being rushed. Does she bite a rag if a friend is playing with her?

My guess is not that she's bored. It's that she either does not have the right drives for the work or that the training program isn't suited to her.

How old is this dog?

She is about to be three

Rags, ropes, even the bite sleeve. You show it, she wants it. Bites on command plays vigorous tug, and release on command. It does not matter who holds it. The moment you play tug with any of those toys, you become her new best friend. Tug, and biting she will literally do until the handler is exhausted. She will get bored with fetch, I have never seen her get tired of anything involving biting or tugging.

I tend to agree that she is not being taught that the training is serious. One thing I am going to be a pretty insistent on is that they very slowly start to ramp up the pressures on her, the drive is there, I know the dog very well and she is going to need those pressures to really bring out that drive. I am a little baffled at their explanation for what they are doing as in the event she will need to use her skills, it will be an extremely stressful and loud altercation, it will not be a game.