Good Evening,

My name is Derek Dreger. I am an avid dog lover and since I attended a protection training session with a local K9 handler, I've been hooked on protection training, so much so I'm starting wonder how I can get a career doing this. I have a lot to learn.... long road but I will enjoy the journey.

I'm wondering if this video would be worth investing in... Here's my situation.

I started obedience training a female GSD of mine and never really got the schutzhund bug until I trained all the drive out of her. Turned out she makes a great companion dog and is going to a new home next month with a little boy living in a life support chair who absolutely fell in love with her when he seen pictures and seen video of how well behaved she is. I will be titling her as a therapy dog so that she is able to accompany him to school and go out with him every where. So looking for a replacement pup, with the end goal of some day producing a littler I bought a 2 year old female with strong working blood lines, lots of PSD's and even Art Z Lipin in her pedigree. Problem is, she has no toy drive and appears to have no prey drive left in her. She was never trained, since being sold to her former handlers she was kept as a pet and breeding stock (she's had one litter and produced some awesome puppies). I've been working on engagement with her and charging markers to give her a foundation in obedience, but even her food drive lacks... she will not chase the food and one miss and she loses interest immediately. I've been reinforcing all good behaviours and trying to get her to play with any kind of toy and really pumping her up if she actually bites a toy i wave around, but nothing appears to get her going. She's only 2 so being this young one would think I should be able to ignite a fire in her and get her started again, but I'm having a heck of a time trying.

Would this video have exercises that would help?

Does anyone have an idea how to start her?

I know that once I get her high in drive to shut it down so she amps easier the following time and goes higher and higher... but nothing is grabbing her attention.

On another note I have a 11 week old Dutch Shepherd male who's an absolute animal! He's amazing, easily trained and is a fiend for the puppy sleeves.

Thanks for the help,

Derek

-mods if you read this and feel I can get a better answer from a different forum please feel free to move.

How are her pups "awesome" if she is only 2? They can't be more than a couple of months....

It sounds like she has very low drive or has had it corrected out of her. I would not buy a pup from her, genetics aside...

I hope you are able to drag something put of her, for your sake.

Good luck with her!

Jessica,

I know little about you, and see from your reply that you offer your opinion. I'm trying to add merit to your opinion, so can you tell me what background you have in the field of protection training and drive building? Perhaps that would give me some insight as to where you are coming from.

Thank you for your reply.

Hello Derek and Welcome,

I don't know anything about Protection or Schutzhund training or even the video of which you speak but any video here would be a huge improvement over "training the drive out of the dog." That, I can say, is just wrong.

Where you have a couple of different ages you are working with; I'd probably recommend the "Training with Marker" and "Power of Training with Food" videos to start.

 Quote: Derek Dreger

I will be titling her as a therapy dog so that she is able to accompany him to school and go out with him every where.

It's not that simple.

That is a service dog. The dog needs to assist him with a disability to have public access. No titling or certification required OR that can be used as "proof" to be allowed public access. Only a need to have the dog and a dog that's trained well enough to fulfill that need without being a nuisance in public is required. A dog trained to public access service dog level should pass a certification test with flying colors if it was presented with one.

I'm not saying that you can't train the dog to be a service animal but you need to be aware of the difference between a therapy dog, a well behaved companion, an at home service dog, and a service dog allowed public access under the ADA regulations.

Schools can be a real PITA. At my high school a student had to work for almost half a school year for them to "allow" her guide dog puppy to come to school with her. In Arizona a service dog in training has the same access rights as an actual service dog. She made the mistake of asking permission for something that she already had the right to do.

 Quote: Derek Dreger

I know that once I get her high in drive to shut it down so she amps easier the following time and goes higher and higher... but nothing is grabbing her attention.

I'm confused. Why "shut it down" when she's doing what you want her to do? That seems counter productive.

How long have you had her?

 Quote: Derek Dreger

I'm trying to add merit to your opinion, so can you tell me what background you have in the field of protection training and drive building?

You don't need a background in protection to recognize a drive problem, and genetics help determine a dog's drive. Every experienced poster here can recognize the error you made here.

 Quote: Derek Dreger

So looking for a replacement pup, with the end goal of some day producing a littler I bought a 2 year old female with strong working blood lines, lots of PSD's and even Art Z Lipin in her pedigree. Problem is, she has no toy drive and appears to have no prey drive left in her.

Regardless of the dog's pedigree, she doesn't have solid drives. You got taken by a breeder that knew this dog was a washout. No working line breeder in their right mind would choose a brood bitch who displayed a total lack of usable drives. This is a 2yo dog; why would you buy an unproven mature bitch to breed? Buying a puppy from proven parents is a crapshoot, and you just narrowed your odds more significantly.

Moreover, Jessica is right. How can you possibly evaluate puppies that can't be more than six months old? They aren't even eligble to title until they are 15 months old, and they are much too young to protection train. You won't be able to sell her pups to any serious sport or protection trainer.

I'm trying to add merit to your evaluation of your dog, so can you tell me what background you have that would lend credibility to the statement
"she's had one litter and produced some awesome puppies"?

As for MY background, I adopted a mature brood bitch from a BYB. My dog has questionable genetics and drive deficiencies, yet I still managed to get a BH on her (and we are training for the next level in OB and TR). I WILL NOT be breeding her in hopes of producing a sport/protection prospect. The next pup I get will come from a proven breeder, and the pup will meet muster before any monies are exchanged.
http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=31017&page=1

 Quote:

It's not that simple.

Thank you, Cathy. I'm glad someone else wrote what I was about to. As a person who's given some serious thought to using a service dog it irks me when people don't have the slightest clue what one really is and what it takes to train one.

First off, I meant no disrespect to Kim or anyone else. I was asking about "background" because everyone has an opinion, so I was just trying to ensure this is someone's advice I should value. I am new to this community so I dont know who's who around here yet.

Duane, thank you for the link to your thread. Looks like there is somethings to read/try in there.

When I said she produced some awesome pups, based on what limited knowledge I have of selecting a working puppy (reading posts and articles on this site), they fit the bill. But yes I understand this is from my limited knowledge.

I was not taken by the breeder, I was a fool in selecting her based on her pedigree, OFA certification, and viewing the pups she produced.

It seems the basic conclusion from the replies here is that the video will not provide me any knowledge, as she is a lost cause. So I will move on.

As for those misunderstanding me regarding "Service Dogs" - I'm not training my previous pup to be a service dog. Where I'm from there is a certification for Therapy dog. Talking to the school where the young boy attends, they would be happy to let her come to school with him so long as she gets this certification. I have no intent to train service dogs, and understand the time and effort it takes...

Cathy - by shut it down, I dont mean her drive... I meant the session. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Thanks for the responses.

I have MANY years involvement in Schutzhund and many years of handling personal protection dogs. I was married to our cities K9 Sgt and trained with them regularly. I am also very involved in breed rescue/foster, with probably 15 litters over the course of the years.

I gave you an opinion based on YOUR description of the bitch. YOU described a very low drive animal that was either born that way (breeding aside) or was corrected for showing/acting on drive. There is zero other reason that a dog of any breeding would display what you described. If I were to guess, I would say it was a lack of drive to start with as even a drivey dog that has been corrected as typically happens in most pet homes would STILL show drive if encouraged.

As for the pups she had… Most breeder will not breed a bitch until she is herself at least 2 years and has shown to have the traits that one wants to pass on. IF the person that owned her prior to you getting her waited until age two, and the pups were born and weaned as is typical, and she is still being referred to as “two years old” and not “an almost three year old bitch” then her pups are still quite young. No one will know if they are “awesome” yet. Pups can and will change quite a bit before they can be labeled as a success. Many of the traits that would be desirable in a Mal breeding can’t be quantified until they are mature. If you had a four year old bitch with a two year old litter and another on the ground, THEN one could claim her a good producer despite the lack of drive she shows. Maybe.