I briefly tried to introduce Tanner to the e-collar by pairing the stim with a verbal "no". It didn't seem like he was pairing them together. I get the "landmines!" reaction and he completely loses any focus/engagement. I try to guide him into the correct response(a sit) but he's so intent on figuring out what bit him that I can see he's not connecting it even after I mark the sit. He'll still take food but it's halfhearted. I haven't needed or used leash corrections with him hardly at all but I'd like him to understand what the e-collar stim means before I take him off leash. I also want to work on him chasing cats.

I don't seem to get any reaction of any kind below what I have it set at. Do I need to lower the stim just based on his reaction and chalk it up to me not reading him well enough? He's a softer dog. I can't use the tap/vibrate function at all with him. Back up to leash corrections because they're easier to understand? Verbal is enough for him 90% of the time. I've corrected him very rarely up till this point because he was still learning but I feel like he understands commands well enough to enforce them now.

Do I need to just back things up and completely finish distraction training on a leash?

Yeah, It sounds like you need to turn it down. You tried it first just as a correction, no then stim? When your introducing it, I think the most important part is the releasing of the stim. He really barely needs to feel it and then mostly be aware it stopped when he complied.

I think its better to pair it with three commands, first sit, then come, then send him to a crate or spot.

What kind of e-collar is it and how many levels of stim does it have?

It's a mini Einstein with 100 levels and I'm using the mini contact points.

We may be just shelving it for awhile till I can find a trainer that's experienced with them. I was sent the website for one that's a few hours from me.

At this point training has to slow down for the summer anyway. Tanner overheats easy.

Good morning Cathy,

A story. When I first started to use an e collar, I first put the collar on my arm. As with anyone who has to put his finger into the flame to learn to avoid hot, I then tapped the stimulation on the collar. First, no big deal. Then, a tingle. Soon, attention getting but tolerable. Then, full bore and WOW. I quickly decided, after my little experiment, that I'd use tone and stimulation together starting at the lowest possible level with an objective of using only the tone. And finally to use only the collar as a dummy to focus the dog on my commands.

So. Why this note? An e collar is a tool. The user has to fully appreciate the tool. If you whack a dog in a circumstance where the dog does not understand the command set it is a misuse of the tool, in my opinion. In my opinion, the dog has to have the up close command set compliance pretty firmly in hand. Then, as distance is extended, the dog has a command reference conditioning and correction is part of the previously learned compliance. The dog is just discovering that you can reach out if you really need to.

For cuing the dog I use tone only. If the dog is compliant all I am trying to accomplish is a mind meld where the dog and I are get back on the same page close in or far out.

This rambling has to do with being confident of compliance close in and moving to distance, using tools as cues rather than correctors, if that makes any sense.

Put another way, I've observed that using the stimulation can be counter productive, just as over using leash correction can be counter productive.

Clearly, I need more coffee and a better understanding and appreciation of the subject matter.

Have you seen the video Ed Frawley did on e-collar for pets or the new one by Michael Ellis? I've got both but haven't gotten to watch Michaels yet.

Based on your description, I'd say that it sounds like the stim level is too high. The trainer I work with had taught that you should be using the minimum level stim that the dog acknowledges and this acknowledgement is very subtle; a shift in their gaze, minor ear movement, etc. I look for a response that is akin to a fly landing on their forehead. If I'm seeing more than that then I know the stim level is higher than necessary.

In my limited experience, there is a learning period where the dog is a bit confused by the stim but rather quickly they come to understand that it's the follow on for hearing "no" and not adjusting their behavior.

I wish the Einstein came with a tone function. Tanner hates the vibrate.

I have the Remote Collar for Pets video.

We tried again today. I got an ear flip at 15 so figured we would start there. I wound up dialing it back to 5 out of 100 levels. Sensitive boy. I can't even feel it that low but he evidently can.

Glad I sprung for the Einstein when I did. With less levels the collar would probably be unusable.

Some of the Einstein collars do come with a tone function rather than a vibrate function; their model numbers end in TA.

I've been pretty surprised as well at how low a level my dog will respond to. I've personally found that on the Einstein collar I use, my dog will normally respond at around 13 but in higher distraction environments I do end up dialing up a bit, probably never needed more than 40. In contrast, the Dogtra I have was typically set around 30 and we went up to about 60 for high distraction environments on the same dog. I don't look at the numbers so much as the dog's response to the stim.

I'm confused, and please don't take this as an insult, or an anti e-collar statement, but if you haven't "finished" training your dog with leash corrections why are training it on an e collar ? And more importantly if your dog is "soft" what made you go to an e collar?
Again not trolling just curious.