 Luring .... and fading the lure
#377471 - 05/06/2013 11:39 PM |
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Can we talk about fading a lure?
I do this pretty quickly .... but to me, the "lure" means the gesture including the food. So I get the food out of the gesture as soon as I can, to begin, and then gradually make the gesture itself more subtle.
Tonight I looked up five sites about it and found five similar-but-not-the-same ideas about it, and I'd love it if I could hear other folks' ideas and suggestions.
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#377475 - 05/06/2013 11:58 PM |
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As soon as I see the dog is understanding what I want then I start fading the lure.
If the dog truly understand markers with reward then they will get the idea faster and I will drop the food from the gesture earlier.
Example;
Luring for the sit. I will put the command in a bit before I start fading the lure/food. I will then give the command and then make the gesture a split second later. When the dog starts the sit behavior before I make the gesture then it's time to drop that gesture.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#377481 - 05/07/2013 08:17 AM |
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Our experience is pretty much the same as what Bob described. Our only difference, right or wrong, is that we never really fade the gesture. We use the lure of food to begin shaping the behavior or command and our dogs usually get it fairly quickly. After just a few repetitions, we fade the lure away and just rely on the gesture and verbal command. The gesture remains as the hand signal we use with or without the command from that point on so we continue reinforcing the hand signal. All done using marker training, obviously.
 Bailey
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#377494 - 05/07/2013 09:59 AM |
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"The gesture remains as the hand signal we use with or without the command from that point on so we continue reinforcing the hand signal."
Me too, Greg. It's a "faded" (LOL) gesture by then, diminished in arm movement.
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#377531 - 05/07/2013 11:23 PM |
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I agree about the gesture being used as a hand signal but I also train formal hand signals for AKC UD. Those are a bit different from a luring gesture so I teach those separately.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#377532 - 05/08/2013 08:43 AM |
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I agree about the gesture being used as a hand signal but I also train formal hand signals for AKC UD. Those are a bit different from a luring gesture so I teach those separately. I'm going to start working more and hand signals, and I think I'm going to need to do this very same thing. Some of my post-luring gestures are pbly too subtle to use at distance, and some have been corrupted by using the same gesture for more than one position. I look forward to improving my non-verbal communication with my dog.
Sadie |
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#377533 - 05/08/2013 09:13 AM |
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One thing I'd kinda keep in mind Duane, may not be a big deal, but it would stop me from doing that. Since you do IPO obedience, the goal is no physical help, all voice. Its one thing to have taught hand signals in the beginning, then fade them. My Rott still remembers them from almost 10yrs ago. But I think its another to introduce them now, I'd worry about the physical taking over and ruining my verbal commands.
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#377536 - 05/08/2013 11:39 AM |
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Didn't think about that, Steve. Thanks for the heads-up.
Another question, then; would it help to be concious of and try to eliminate the body language that I have been subconciously sending out, or is it a non-factor? One guy at our club practices not moving at all when he gives a command, but I wasn't sure if that made a difference.
Sadie |
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#377574 - 05/08/2013 10:55 PM |
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It can definitely be a factor. Our dogs are really tuned into all our movements and body positions.
Te see how much just give your dog a sit command with your back turned to him. The dog is getting a whole different picture of you and that can really open your eyes as to how the dog "SEES" a verbal command.
It's also a good way to proof your commands. It lets the dog know to ignore anything he sees and listen for the command.
In proofing I give commands with my back turned, jumping up and down, sitting, lying on my back, etc.
Giving unintentional visual cues with your commands can kill you in a competition. I'll guarantee the judges look for them.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Luring .... and fading the lure
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#377707 - 05/12/2013 01:38 PM |
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It can definitely be a factor. Our dogs are really tuned into all our movements and body positions.
Te see how much just give your dog a sit command with your back turned to him. The dog is getting a whole different picture of you and that can really open your eyes as to how the dog "SEES" a verbal command.
It's also a good way to proof your commands. It lets the dog know to ignore anything he sees and listen for the command.
In proofing I give commands with my back turned, jumping up and down, sitting, lying on my back, etc.
Giving unintentional visual cues with your commands can kill you in a competition. I'll guarantee the judges look for them.
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