Well, this particular forum hasn't had a post since last October, and unfortunately the few prior posts are not pertinant to my problem.
Perhaps some of the more experienced trainers can help?

First off, I have Ed's tape on this activity. I have successfully taught the dog to leave and run to a target. And my problem is not that the dog won't go on signal: given a "target", she runs fast and straight to it, or drops if given a down command. The problem is that if a "target" is not obvious/visable, or in the same place where she last saw it, she slows down and starts in a search mode. This happens at short distances or very long.

I fear I have taught her to "run to a target" rather than follow the hand signal to "run out".
I say this because when it's time for that exercise, she watches for my arm swing and her head immediately snaps forward looking for the target! (Somewhat similar to what happens in the Flinks dumbbell exercise, when the dogs attention goes from the handler to the dumbbell on the ground)

If a target, which had been on the north end of the field is visibly moved to the west end, and the dog is sent to the west end, she will still veer off course and run to the north end where she last saw the target.

This is my first time ever teaching this exercise and I'm stumped. I've obviously done something wrong. Any suggesstions as to how I teach the transition from the target to following the direction of my arm signal?

We (SchH) usually teach the dog to go out on the same line as the sit and down in motion. You can start training by placing the toy on that line were thedog can not see it. When he starts to slow. Platz him then go to the toy. Let him see were you pick it up, and then bring it to him and reward him were he went down.

IF you want to teach the dog to go any direction you want, I would suggest you go to the Tritronics site. Jim teaches a wheel system to retrievers that works great but will take a while longer to teach.
Ron

>Tritronics site. Jim teaches a wheel system to
>retrievers that works great but will take a
>while longer to teach.

Where abouts on the site? I went there and looked but didn't find it and would like to read it.

Thanks!

Is this the wagon wheel system that was talked about? Dobb's send out

It looks interesting, has anyone used this system?

Yes, with two labs and it works well. The only problem is that you sit the dog. Use your hand to get the dog looking in the right direction. And at the moment the dog is looking were you want him to go, you give the send command. I dont think a judge in this world will let you do that.
Your three forth of the way there. Just start using a smaller target. Or put it in your pocket. At this point do as stated earlier, always send on line as the healing.
If the dog is slowing down to look around, run behind him as he is going out, and when he starts to slow, yell the command again. You have done the hardest part, now you just need to do the reps so he knows that evan if the treat is not there you will reward anyway.
Ron

Putting a toy on the ground that the dog cannot see will create the searching problem. A good idea is to elevate the toy somehow, and always place it at the very end of the field. That way the dog learns to run all the way to the end. I have a large dog bowl that I turn upside down and I set a ball on top of it. First I take the dog with me so he can watch me put the ball there, then I start off from a few feet gradually working my way back each session. You can then work on proofing the exercise by putting two targets on the field and from a short distance send the dog to either one. May not be how you want to teach it, but it has worked for me.

John
If you never ween him off the toy, What do you do when trial day comes and there is no toy there?

I meant use the toy to "teach" the exercise and to build up the dog's drive to go out quickly. However, if you wean the dog off the toy during training and don't reward him, where is the motivation to go out on trial day? Those are the dogs you see that barely run halfway out and down themselves before they even hear the command because they anticipate it. Now you have a dog that gives a lackluster performance and looks bored with the exercise.

With any luck, your dog doesn't know there isn't a toy out there because you down him prior to where he would normally find it.


A good trick is toy placement, rather than putting toys in the field or at a specific target. . .place them at the furthest point out. Like right at a fence, then right at a hedge, then right at whatever . . .

Over time when you send the dog out, he knows to go streaking out to the furthest point you indicate. . .because that is where the reward is. So you point at a fence, he'll go "YEAH BABY! MY TOY IS AT THE FOOT OF THAT FENCE!!" And away he goes. . . You just have to teach it for many different points. Fences, bushes, building, whatever. The dog will generalize after a while to just about anything.


You don't ween the dog off the toy reward. To keep it fast and correct, there MUST be some motivation for the dog. Fear or drive, you have to choose one.

Robert,

How do you get the dog to understand that the toy is at the furthest point? Does the dog have to have a basic idea of what the send away exercise is prior to that point?

For example, a dog new to the exercise, training in drive, how do you prevent the search mode from turning on, if the toy is not in sight, or just looking at you a going HUH?

I got the idea about the dog generalizing, after the light bulb goes on, but how do you introduce the excercise?

I need all the tricks I can to teach my dog the send out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />