Matt Lang wrote 07/10/2013 10:43 PM Rattlesnake vaccine? #380399 - 07/10/2013 10:43 PM
Matt Lang Webboard User Reg: 07-11-2008 Posts: 291 Loc: Northern California Offline	Do you guys have any thoughts on the rattlesnake vaccine? I've never been enthused about it but after running into a snake last weekend and narrowly avoiding disaster, I'm reconsidering. Where I live, we are only going to run into a snake during our summer backpacking trips in the mountains, and even then it's quite rare to see one. However, if one of the dogs got bit, it could be 8-12 hrs or more while I carry them out and get to a vet. I'm thinking the vaccine could help buy us some time. Thoughts? Ps. My dogs are 50lbs & 70lbs, & the 50lb one is more likely to get bit than the larger one.
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Bob Scott wrote 07/10/2013 11:14 PM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Matt Lang ] #380400 - 07/10/2013 11:14 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	Vaccine is snake specific. What works for a Timber rattler doesn't mean it will work for a Pigmy rattler. I believe they have to be kept at a certain temp and there may also be a shelf life. You could also have your dog snake proofed. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Will Rambeau wrote 07/10/2013 11:52 PM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Matt Lang ] #380402 - 07/10/2013 11:52 PM
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003 Posts: 5983 Loc: Idaho Offline	Matt, we talked in depth about that vaccine about two years ago - if you can get the "search" function to work for you, that information might be what you're looking for. The Fetz dog: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/79673/page/25
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Cathy Goessman wrote 07/11/2013 01:30 AM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Matt Lang ] #380403 - 07/11/2013 01:30 AM
Cathy Goessman Webboard User Reg: 12-03-2007 Posts: 1231 Loc: Phoenix, AZ Offline	I would trust more in snake proofing and keeping my dog close than I would that vaccine. I've talked to vets who refuse to give it after witnessing a bad reaction or death. http://www.k9medic.us/K9Medic-Rattlesnake-Vaccine.php The company's response of "Our vaccine could not have possibly caused that" has been given in several cases of sudden illness following the rattlesnake vaccine. http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/vaccinesurvivors9.html
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Connie Sutherland wrote 07/12/2013 10:51 AM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Cathy Goessman ] #380439 - 07/12/2013 10:51 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=18408&page=1#182524 http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=22619&page=1#231131 http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=17131&page=1 http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=20685&page=1#209127 http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=19189&page=1#191982 http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=17131&page=1 This post is OLD (2007) but may be of interest for providing sites to visit:  Quote: Connie Sutherland UC Davis QUOTE: Several other canine vaccines are currently available on the market. These are vaccines for canine coronavirus, Giardia spp., canine adenovirus-1, and rattlesnake envenomation. The reports of the AVMA and the AAHA canine vaccine task force have listed the first three vaccines as not generally recommended, because ‘the diseases are either of little clinical significance or respond readily to treatment’, evidence for efficacy of these vaccines is minimal, and they may ‘produce adverse events with limited benefit’. Currently, information regarding the efficacy of the canine rattlesnake vaccine is insufficient. The UC Davis VMTH does not stock or routinely recommend use of these four vaccines.END at http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/vmth/clientinfo/info/genmed/vaccinproto.html And here's another opinion: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_rattlesnake_bites_in_californi.html
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Connie Sutherland wrote 07/13/2013 10:56 AM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #380485 - 07/13/2013 10:56 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I found recent reviews/comments. UC Davis: "Due to the vaccine’s questionable efficacy, cost, and lack of substantial difference in acute therapy if an animal is bitten, the vaccine is currently not stocked and is not advocated for animals routinely seen at the Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital. For clients in high risk areas and where emergency treatment may be substantially delayed, the vaccine may buy time for the owner to seek emergency care. In these cases, owners must weigh the benefits versus the risks and be aware that the vaccine does not insure protection against the venom." from http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/whatsnew/article.cfm?id=1883 (It's short and worth reading in its entirety.) And here is a clear discussion, dispelling some misguided opinions: "Efficacy: Does it work? Yes… and No, depending on how you define “work”. First, it is absolutely crucial that everyone understands that this product does not, and was never intended to, eliminate the need for immediate veterinary care including anti-venom. This bears repeating as I regularly hear handlers tell me that they don’t worry about Rattlesnakes anymore because their dog has been vaccinated. The vaccine does not prevent the poisonous effects of venom. According to manufacturer Red Rock Biologics “vaccinated dogs experience less pain and have a reduced risk of permanent injury from rattlesnake bite”. How much less and how reduced? Unfortunately, the manufacturer has chosen not to make their research available for peer review or to the public. Anecdotal evidence suggests the product helps to minimize pain, reduce swelling, and ultimately reduces tissue damage and the likelihood of death. Of particular interest to SAR Handlers is that the symptoms may have a more gradual onset. Some Veterinarians have observed delays of about 1 hr, which can make a crucial difference when your dog is in the field. Furthermore it seems that, once you reach the veterinarian, less anti-venom may be required, which would be good for both your dog and your wallet. Again this is anecdotal and other studies have shown no significant difference in outcome. " from http://www.k9medic.us/K9Medic-Rattlesnake-Vaccine.php Also, "Which Snakes Does It Protect Against? Also realize that the vaccine was designed specifi cally to protect against the Western Diamondback. The manufacturer claims that it also provides protection against the Western Rattlesnake (including the Prairie, Great Basin, Northern, and Southern Pacifi c Rattlesnakes), Sidewinder, Timber Rattlesnake, Massasauga, and Copperhead, plus partial protection against the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake. It is important to note that it provides NO protection against Water Moccasins (Cottonmouths), Mojave Rattlesnakes, or Coral Snakes." from http://www.karelianbeardog.us/backcountry/rattlesnakeVaccine.pdf
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Bob Scott wrote 07/14/2013 12:01 AM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Matt Lang ] #380498 - 07/14/2013 12:01 AM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	I will add to this that I've see 4-5 dogs that took Copperhead bites. One was a JRT owned by one of my hunting partners who is a veterinarian. All she did was give antibiotics and tetanus shots. Copperheads are RARELY deadly to dog or humans. Not so much with the rattlers. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Matt Lang wrote 07/17/2013 04:52 PM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Matt Lang ] #380631 - 07/17/2013 04:52 PM
Matt Lang Webboard User Reg: 07-11-2008 Posts: 291 Loc: Northern California Offline	Thanks everybody. Lots to think about but I'll hold off on the vaccine for now. The odds of us encountering a rattler are very slim. I just worry that if we ever have a bite, it could be many hours before getting to the vet.
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Betty Landercasp wrote 07/17/2013 05:32 PM Re: Rattlesnake vaccine? [Re: Matt Lang ] #380645 - 07/17/2013 05:32 PM
Betty Landercasp Webboard User Reg: 11-30-2009 Posts: 3724 Loc: minnesota Offline	I think perhaps you should consider asking your veterinarian to provide you with antibiotics+ other current Rxs for snakebite instead. http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/Grasvaly/
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