hey members , just wanted to share a training experience i just created to help henry get over his apparent aversion to water .

a little background to set things up . years ago , my first BC wasn't really interested in swimming . he had plenty of opportunity and reason ( training in hot temps ) but he just never seemed to get it . there was a nice little creek running adjacent to the field we were using for tracking so one day we just decided we needed to show him exactly what we wanted from him .

there was a log extending out into the current a way with a nice eddy just downstream . i put scout into her arms , she took him out onto the log and put him in the water . he swam to shore , i grabbed him and we repeated the sequence three times .

on the way home he saw some water and he barked is face off . i wondered what i might have done , but sure enough , the next time he had access to water he jumped right in with no prompting .

fast forward to henry , 20 years later , and he was showing the same sort of reluctance , even though i had seen him wade out to retrieve a toy and he'd fallen out of a canoe before . so i knew he knew how to swim , he just didn't know it was something he could just do .

i have a friend who lives on the lake . there is a nice wharf which is not very high off the water . i bought some fresh steak cut into proper sizes . we went out onto the wharf . my friend took henry , and on the word " swimming !" , tossed him into the lake . he was able to scramble back onto the wharf , where he received a jack pot of steak . quickly sent him back into the water , same command , same reaction , same reward . after a few of those he started swimming to shore , where i met him in shallow water and presented his reward while he was still afloat . i could even lure him around with the steak while he was swimming .

with very little encouragement , he would run back out onto the wharf , and was actually getting to the jump in point without any prompting . we did two more " assisted " water entries , before i started issuing the " swimming " command without the assist . sure enough he would enter the water all by himself , and i could lure him up and down the wharf , feeding him in the water while he swam by . he sure wouldn't win any dock diving contests , but he sure seems to like the water once he's in .

i wished that i had taped the session because it was so successful .

flooding is a bit of a gamble , but i had planned it well , and was confident in his ability to take on the stress without damaging the relationship . i used a very high reward , and i hedged my bets by using another person to do the dirty work until i saw that he was taking to it well .

Flooding is NOT something that would be recommended with most dogs in most situations. It can be a real deal (read relationship here) breaker.

Trust is the biggest thing that your dog gives to you in your relationship....damage that & training & everything else goes to hell.

Think long & hard before you make the decision to do something so potentially damaging like that to your dog & your relationship.

I have to add here that the title might better be "flooding may work sometimes."

I work a lot with fearful and reactive dogs, and have learned over the years how badly flooding can backfire.

In this situation, with an owner I respect and like, I want to say this carefully and not dismissively or judgmentally, but I do have to say it.

IMO, flooding should be left to long-experienced professionals, and even then I would question it and consider the options long and hard.

Careful and gradual desensitizing isn't going to cause a huge damaging setback, and flooding certainly can.


Yes, I've seen it work, of course! But almost every time, I was thinking of how I'd have done it, and that wasn't it.

JMO!

I wouldn't classify "tossing" as "assisting".

big difference between the 2.

I appreciated your other approach better, taking the dog out in someones arms a little ways and assisting them back to the shore.

but the tossing part I just can't wrap my head around it.

that could lead to panic for some dogs.

I'm relieved and happy that it worked out, Ian.


But I was remembering how another board member did his version of "flooding." Mike walked into the deep pool WITH Cujo, just strode in. Very different from tossing him in. He could always have walked back out with him if he saw the beginnings of panic.

I saw someone I didn't know toss a young dog into the water a couple of years ago and result in a dog who, IMO, will never be around open water again without wet-his-pants terror.

It could have ended well, yes. But it ended unutterably badly, and I can't imagine how that trust, that bond, was ever repaired.


I want o separate this from the O.P., who I know, knowing him, had zero intention of ever damaging his dog's confidence or bond with him,. I'd just say that in general, if we stop and think, we can always plan steps that will get us safely to where we want to be with the dog without flooding.

All JMO!

totally , absolutely 100 % percent agree with what you are saying ladies .

i thought long and hard before going down this road again , and in fact , put it off several times before we went through with it .

i had even resisted pressure from colleagues to just " just shove him in " . i waited until i felt he was mature enough by seeing how he rebounded from other challenging situations . this indicated to me that the relationship was strong enough to withstand the stress being applied .

then i thought the whole scenario through ( many times ) , got the right people involved , waited for one of the hottest days of the year , worked him hard prior , cleared the area of all other distractions , bought the highest reward treat i could get , and stopped even when he looked like he wanted more .

we played desensitizing repeatedly over the last year , but he just wasn't seeing swimming as a rewardable ( and fun ) behaviour . as with scout , he needed to be actually doing the activity to understand what he was being rewarded for , rather than just a whole lot of " good boy ! " encouragement as he danced around in the shallower water .

thanks for adding your comments to the thread , because i agree , this is not something anyone should do out of frustration or as an initial strategy .

i just wanted to share a success story .

edit to wendy : when i say " toss " , we're talking about a difference of about 20 cm from the wharf deck to the waters' surface . his face , head , ears never submerged and barely wet . not like a big birthday launch into the lake lol .

Edited by ian bunbury (07/31/2013 11:01 AM)
Edit reason: added note to another member .

Thanks, Ian. That was a good P.S.

I agree Ian, this wasn't a shot at you. Im sure you know your dog and it's limits.

it's more for someone searching for "how to teach their dog to swim" methods and think this would work for every dog.

and thanks for the clarification on the "toss"...lol...your description of "birthday toss" is now in my head.

Just wondering - what made you choose that route over something like frustration?

Kipp is not a water dog, but bring out a couple toys and another dog? He turns into a determined swimmer. A little frustration and competition and he is on it.

thanks for asking mara . . .

i did actually use his toys to entice him into the water . he would very gingerly , over time , creep out and pick it out of the water and then get out of there . or , he would stand there in chest deep water and wait until the wind or current brought it to him . he wasn't " swimming " so much as just doing what he had to , when he had to , to get the object .

as for other dogs , in true border collie thinking , both he and scout were quite happy to let other dog(s) go get the object , and then they'd go steal it from them shortly thereafter .

and connie , yer right , the thread title should have been , " flooding worked , this time " .