Many of us have large, working-type dogs. We have a couple of members who are showing us the ropes with LGDs. A lot of us (hand raised) came here looking for training solutions because our latest dog is more challenging than dogs that we've had in the past. Let's not kid ourselves... No matter how good a job we've done in managing them, they are still potentially dangerous animals.

As it relates to conflict between dogs, don't even worry about which dog is right and wrong. If two dogs are allowed to sniff each other's butts, then end up in a squabble, it's not the fault of either dog. They're just doing what comes naturally. It is the responsibility of the owners to curb this before the trouble starts.

Realize this... if her poodle runs up to your GSD in Petco, sniffs, then nips your GSD on the snout, you will be the dunce when your GSD bites said poodle in half. Even though you did not approach the other dog/owner and you did nothing to instigate the incident, it behooves you to act, for your dog's own protection, in a preemptive fashion to avoid the interaction. Now, if you're thinking to yourself, "My dog can take care of himself!", imagine how you'll feel if he gets a death sentence for defending himself. Can he fend for himself in a kill shelter?

My dog is very dog-reactive, to the point that I consider her dog aggressive. Therefore, I cannot take her to many of the places where my friends take their dogs. At family reunions and gatherings, I'm the only one who leaves the dog at home. As you might guess, a dog park is way out of the question. I do all I can to not put my dog in a position where she could get either of us in trouble.

The one place where we cannot avoid interaction with other dogs is at our schutzhund club. However, the more experienced folks follow a few simple rules to avoid confrontations. Dogs are not allowed to posture at each other. When a group forms for discussion or instruction, all dogs are supposed to be downed, preventing a dog from feeling dominant or submissive towards the others. Generally, when the dogs are moving about, we give each other a wide berth. Any dog that has a nasty reaction during group exercises is exiled to the sidelines until he can focus when reintroduced to the group. Even with these precautions being taken, some of the handlers still think their dogs can socialize at club meetings, so I'm typically a little distant from and wary of these folks. Of course, being rude is always an option, but I consider it a last resort.

How about you? What measures do you take to prevent these incidents? Short of being a butt, how can we teach the clueless, blissfully ignorant dog owners to help us prevent dog fights?

Despite the fact that Kaiser has never been the protagonist in a potential altercation, there have been occasions when a dog has tried mighty hard to engage him in a rumble - usually a small and yappy Westie/Jack/Paterdale - and when this happens I always say no, ignore, move on, and march on past pdq.

I think the small dogs worry me the most, because often at the other end of the lead is an older person, whose dog is their baby, and IF Kaiser retaliated, and charged or made contact with the yapper, I would be a pariah, the woman in the village with the four big dogs, who obviously has no control over the giant mastiff who upset the poor old duffer and his rotten little dog, therefore, I am incessantly scouring the short walk on the road to the fields for possible encounters.

My now some what jaded view on clueless owners, is they truly have no idea what the protocols are for sensible and responsible behaviours when meeting other dogs on their walks, I know in most cases there is no malice involved, just ignorance and denial; completely uneducated, and probably disinterested in the other dogs fear of their puffed up and snarling 'baby' and so when or if something DOES kick off, it is clearly the big dogs fault, BECAUSE they are big dogs.

I have proffered the opinion to these owners, that it is best they don't let their dog come any closer, 'just in case' but I am ever aware, that by saying I don't want my dogs to hurt theirs, it is suggesting my dog/s are aggressive and dangerous, something else I want to avoid.

The same thing applies at the house - I have a polite 'No cold callers or religious groups please' and if I know someone is going to be calling round, or delivering something, I shut the dogs outside, and lock the door, in fact, I rarely have visitors that can't or won't be able to deal with the sheer size and situation of four large dogs in a small house, their nervousness makes the dogs go on the alert, thereby confirming their belief dogs are scary.

So I guess what I am saying in my long winded way of answering your question Duane, is I usually avoid any and all possible scenarios where my dogs could be considered the 'problem' because most of the dog people I come across are blissfully ignorant, indifferent, and unwilling to consider the possibility they are the problem.

I bring my dogs all sorts of places like Petco/Petsmart/etc to train, so we run into obnoxious dogs all of the time. Generally, it's as simple as keeping an eye out and avoiding them. I'm hyper aware of the dogs in the store when I'm in there and move away from dogs that enter out isle. If we get cornered my boys are in a downstay up against a shelf and I am in front of them, nothing is going to get them without my say so. I also rely on movement, we're ALWAYS moving, there is no time for someone stop and let their dog "say hi" to mine. I will exaggerate training if I see that "type" coming close so it's clear that we are busy and have no interest in meeting your dog.

My standard reaction to loose kids around where my dogs are working is to down them both where they are and wait....if the route to me is clear I will then recall them and put them in downs standing over them. If not I walk to Gamble then heel him to Ryuk and put them both in downs to wait. This looks intimidating but also like my dogs are under control and most parents will wrangle their kids at this point. Even with no parents if you stare the kids down they typically retreat (I'm not a very nice looking person I'm told XD). If they don't both dogs are leashed and we walk to a different area to work, most kids get the hint not to follow, they're smarter than the adults.

I'm just mean and snarky to the adults who are annoying, people who ask don't bug me (my guys are people-safe, Gam's even people social XD) people who try to "freak out" or distract my dogs for fun by doing REALLY dumb things are yelled at and driven away, luckily most of the places I train or go those people aren't there or there are enough dogs that someone else's dog will go try to bite them and I get to reward mine for paying attention.

People are always coming to the farm, service people, buyers of cattle and hay. My English Shepherd is a big dog with a big mouth and he doesn't like strangers. He acts like he would bite.
To avoid trouble I put him in his crate in the garage right away.

The Pinker is much more complicated because he LOOKS like a little sweetums, folks always try to pet him. He does not approach, because he doesn't want to be touched, but people go up to him. So he is crated as well.

Away from home, with dogs on leash-- I just tell people that "I'm sorry, but my dog is unpredictable, he is likely to bite, so please don't touch him". Nobody seems to argue with that.

Walking a very social Rottweiler, I used to find myself torn between allowing him to interact with people, but I have developed a different opinion after spending time here, and for 99% of people now, I will say no I am teaching him to ignore people. Which gets some really weird looks, and some stupid people who will then make kissy noises or try to get him to come to them.

I am in the same situation where I don't want people to think he is aggressive and perpetuate the stereotype, but sometimes people go away with that anyway, I am sure.

I too am on alert anytime we are away for stupid people, with or without dogs, and loose children. There is a woman at the park some days we are there who walks a small fluffy dog, and will continually follow us around and if we stop for a sniff will attempt to walk right up on us. To this point I have kept away from her, but I have gotten to the point where I going to have to say something to be able to have a relaxed experience there. I believe from her actions she just thinks the dogs should meet. I don't.

 Quote: Duane Hull

Short of being a butt, how can we teach the clueless, blissfully ignorant dog owners to help us prevent dog fights?

You cannot teach them. I never works. They don't learn.

The best thing so far, that happened to me and Dexter was at the local pet store, while I was swiping my credit card, and Dexter is behind me in a sit, a person walking up to us, asking: "OMG your dog is so pretty, can I pet your dog?". I respond with a simple NO, loud enough for anybody to hear, and than the person steps in one more step trying to pet him on top of the head.

Well, Dexter barks in his face, and he did for my opinion a little to close. I think all the guy saw at that moment was teeth, and he could feel his warm breath.

Very nice of the pet store cashier, who immediately steps in and asked the person why he did that, even so I told him no. He responds with: "But,.. but I am a dog person..."

I didn't have to say anything, the cashier had the educational conversation with that customer.
But your question is correct, what happens, when a person like that gets hurt, and I am thinking a small scratch alone could be enough to cause a lawsuit.

Sorry Michael, bur I think the cashier should have also told you not to bring Dexter back in again. In a public business, like a store, I think there's a reasonable expectation by people, even those that may not be all that bright, that a dog brought in there should be able to tolerate some contact from strangers.

I fully believe that a dog reactive dog can become less reactive with enough effort. I recall meeting up with you to give you some advice about Sadie's reactivity and since then I've learned about the BAT method. I've got the e-book/PDF if you'd like to take a look. I've modified it to my use/training style and it's worked wonders with a particularly crazy dog I fostered.

" ... avoid any and all possible scenarios where my dogs could be considered the 'problem' because most of the dog people I come across are blissfully ignorant, indifferent, and unwilling to consider the possibility they are the problem."


Bingo.

I agree. This is the job: not to allow situations to arise where the dog can be bitten, or can present a threat himself, or can even seem because of his actions to be a threat. This is how the dog is protected from the actions of brainless (or uneducated/silly/malicious) individuals.

JMO.