I had taken fish oil and E for a long time. Then we started seeing a new Dr, he is a specialist in heart health and is involved with formulating supplements for heart health. He told us that new research is showing that the normal 200-400iu dose of E is actually harmful to heart health. The dose in his recommended supplement for people is 50iu.

So I assume the same would be true for dogs. I give my dog a Nordic Naturals fish oil for people but no vit E. I have read and understand the reasoning behind giving E but since I do believe the dr on this subject, I don't want to cause one problem while fixing another. Thoughts here? Julie

I believe your doctor too and stopped taking a vitamin E supplement years ago.

But dogs and humans aren't the same. (One example: Humans require dietary vitamin C to live; dogs make their own Vitamin C.) Dogs don't get cardiovascular disease like humans do, so the prohibition against E supplementation doesn't apply to them. My understanding of the literature is that dogs need the additional E in order to make use of the Omega 3 supplement if it is added to the diet. And I think that the Omega 3 supplement is necessary unless the dog is eating only grass-fed meat.

Deleted duplicate posting.

Interesting.

Julie, my doctor agrees with your doctor too.

But Tracy is 100% right that very little about several vitamins applies the same to dogs as to humans, and vitamin E is a major example.

It has come up on this board before that advice about E with fish oil for dogs should never be extrapolated to include humans.

As Tracy said, the human heart problem with a certain level of E (and please don't anyone perceive this opinion as human medical advice!) just doesn't apply to dogs. Dogs don't have the kind of heart disease humans are plagued with most .... they don't have coronary artery disease and what we call heart "attacks."

They do have heart problems, but the major human one (the one that may be exacerbated by higher doses of E) does not apply to dogs.


All JMO.


I'm glad you mentioned it, Julie! This was how it came up a couple of years ago, too .... someone had been taking E the way they were giving it to the dogs, and actually increasing it for the human weight.

I think we need to say more often, "this applies to dogs only .... not humans."

I had some stuff saved that I could access quickly (below) and I'll dig up more saved info tonight about oil supplements given to dogs increasing the body's Vitamin E use.





"Diet and Skin Disease in Dogs and Cats 1 - Journal of Nutrition" about Vitamin E at http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/12/2783S.long
.... As a free radical scavenger, it protects cells from the potentially damaging effects of toxic oxygen radicals, whose major source is lipid metabolism. The dietary requirement of vitamin E, therefore, is linked to the dietary intake of PUFA, and high fat diets can induce a relative deficiency of vitamin E. Similarly, levels of vitamin E may be depleted after the oxidation of fat during processing or prolonged storage of food.

(PUFA = polyunsaturated fatty acids, such as in fish oil.)



http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=710 (Scroll down to Vitamin E)



Mary Straus's high end amount (for dogs on oil supplements, or otherwise in need of extra E) is 2 IU per pound of dog. This is less than I give, but I pretty much go by the size of gelcaps available in the kind I want to give (which is natural E {d-alpha, not dl-alpha} with mixed tocopherols), and I round up to the closest size available. (I use 200 IU for my dogs, none of whom are giant breeds, but I know many whose dogs I would probably give 400 IU to.) There is no known E toxicity or O.D. amount for dogs, but it is still a fat soluble vitamin, and it can accumulate -- so just on G.P. I don't give crazy dosages.



" ... If the body does not have enough vitamin E or other antioxidants to protect ingested fish oils circulating in the body from damage by free radicals, the oils may become unstable or harmful to the body rather than beneficial." from http://www.ehow.com/facts_7291768_do-supplements-cause-vitamin-deficiency_.html



ETA
Just a reminder that this isn't about humans. A person's doctor will weigh the fish oil's use of the body's E against other factors that aren't applicable to dogs.

I was going to add additional authoritative sources tonight with info about dogs needing extra E when they are given oil supplements, but today slipped away from me.

Will do so this weekend!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I was going to add additional authoritative sources tonight with info about dogs needing extra E when they are given oil supplements, but today slipped away from me.

Will do so this weekend!

I sifted out a few more from my "saved" list. (BTW, there are also some studies that fail to support ... but to me, with no known downside to Vitamin E supplementation for dogs, I'm going with the majority.)


"Animals being treated for atopy should have supplements with high amounts of EPA, DHA, GLA, and vitamin E. .....The polyunsaturated fats in fatty acid supplements increase the need for antioxidants." from Doctors Foster & Smith at http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=666




"The dietary requirement of vitamin E, therefore, is linked to the dietary intake of PUFA ... Similarly, levels of vitamin E may be depleted after the oxidation of fat during processing or prolonged storage of food." from "Diet and Skin Disease in Dogs and Cats" at http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/12/2783S.long#ref-6




"Fish oil supplementation does, however, lower blood concentrations of vitamin E, so it is a good idea to add extra vitamin E when adding fish oils to the diet." from Dr. Mercola at http://www.mercola.com/beef/omega3_oil.htm




"In an animal study, vitamin E, an antioxidant, was able to combat oxidative stress induced by fish oil and exercise." from http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20000410/exercise-vitamin-e?page=2




"The practice of adding vegetable and fish oils, which contain polyunsaturated fatty acids, to these commercially prepared dog foods also results in dietary vitamin E being used up at a faster rate." from http://iditarod.com/about/veterinary-center/supplementing-vitamin-e-to-alaskan-sled-dogs/
(It’s a PhD-written Iditarod article, but parts of it are basic facts that apply to dogs in general.)



JMO! None of this should be construed as human supplement info. This is about dogs. There are other important factors to Vitamin E supplementation for humans; your health professional should help weigh those pros and cons.

Thanks for all the info. I have been giving fish oil without e for 4 years.

One question. Is vitamin E's primary purpose to handle oxidative stress caused by the fish oil being metabolized?