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Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
#3708 - 07/15/2001 07:45 PM |
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A group of us from our training club, obedience and personal protection, decided to try AKC tracking. We noted that the younger dogs, a year or less, did much better then the older dogs who had much more obedience training/control training. Also the older dogs, 2 year olds, tend to trail instead of foot step track. By trailing I mean sniff the track, trot a few to several steps, sniff again..... Also air scent alot. Would this really have anything to do with age, degree of previous training or type of previous training, or just incorrect training on our parts?
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3709 - 07/16/2001 06:05 PM |
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How did you start your original tracks, most start with the wind to the teams back,causing the scent to drift away from the team therefore causing the k-9 to put his nose close to the ground to stay on the track. You stay using the above method increasing slowly the time and distance not both at the same time though, until your k-9 is tracking with a deep nose before teaching turns or using different wind directions. The problem I have seen over the years is rushing the above method, stay on it until you are satisfied, also go back to short easily laid tracks occasionally to keep him motivated while working the above.
When I train police k-9s I do not use the wind to help I simply start laying tracks any way I want and the k-9 has to follow it the best to his ability.
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3710 - 07/16/2001 09:11 PM |
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We started tracking into the wind which I know promoted his air scenting. However, the younger dogs seemed to do well with this method. I did switch to the wind at my back and more bait which helped, but as the bait drops got fewer the nose came up. He gets every bait drop but may be 3-5 feet down wind of the track in a cross wind and comes back to get it. He also alway find the end article but it is not pretty. He is quite good at small article indication, car keys, pen, business card... I've hind or thrown into tall grass. Air scenting seems to be his thing.
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3711 - 07/16/2001 10:31 PM |
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I am curious, why is it that the dog is not allowed to air scent? This is their natural way of tracking, is it not? If need be, they will nose down, but I find it absurd to require a dog to follow exact footsteps, always nose down, since scent moves as soon as it is dropped. Weather can play all kinds of tricks with scent.
When trying to find an article, I also don't think there is a need for food trails leading to it. If you take your dog into a field, you will find that it will "indicate" on objects on its own. If close enough, it may even sniff or mouth it.
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3712 - 07/17/2001 07:46 AM |
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The topic here is sport tracking.....when training a sport tracking dog to get the points you need to teach footprint tracking or use a drag. A dog that airscents will usually not be "correct" enough in technique to compete in trials and get the points needed to get a good score. For police dogs or s&r dogs airscenting makes more sense but I believe that many of these dogs are still trained initially with footprint to footprint tracking.
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3713 - 07/18/2001 12:56 AM |
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There's something I don't understand about Schutzhund tracking - please enlighten me. If Schutzhund is supposed to be a test for a dog's working ability (correct me if I'm wrong), then why is a dog taught to track unnaturally? I'm a total novice at tracking and I just don't see the value of Schutzhund tracking in measuring a dog's true ability to track.
I'd appreciate it if someone would explain that to me.
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3714 - 07/18/2001 07:44 AM |
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Catherine,
While footprint to footprint tracking is not the way a dog will track on his own without training (i.e. catching a rabbit, etc.) since schutzhund is judged on a point system there needs to be a standard for all dogs. It is really an indication of the dogs trainability, ability to focus and concentrate and scenting ability. A dog can be a great natural tracker but must be trained to use discipline and focus to complete a schutzhund track and receive full points. It all boils down to obedience and using his/her nose at the same time. The same is true of the blind search in protection. The guy is always in 6 (in a trial)but the dog must show obedience and search the empty blinds. That's why good obedience in all 3 phases of Schutzhund is so important. Hope this helps. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3715 - 07/18/2001 01:12 PM |
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It appears then that footstep tracking is only really useful for sport. I'm wondering why Schutzhund tracks aren't more realistic so they truly test a dog's ability to track?
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3716 - 07/18/2001 02:23 PM |
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Catherine,
You seem to have missed Cindy's point and the point of Schutzhund. This is not about tracking, sport tracking is about obedience and training.
You need to read my other posts about the purpose of schutzhund. Read the articles on my web site about schutzhund. This is not real life work, its about a tool to the measure working ability.
The bottom lin is that if you do not like the sport then don't get involved in it, but you are showing your shallow side by bad mouthing something that you don't have a clue about what you are talking about.
It is obvious that you are also not a breeder (at least not a breeder with any experience) because you would not be making the statements that you are making if you had a clue about working ability in a dog.
I will guarantee you that I can look at a sschutzhund comepttion and tell if a dog has drive for the work, good nerves and fight drive.
S don't talk stupid on my board or you will get told how stupid you sound!!! Those are the rules.
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Re: Tracking (foot step ) vs Trailing
[Re: Dave Curtis ]
#3717 - 07/18/2001 03:11 PM |
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You can call me stupid - its your board and you can do what you want. I'm just trying to learn.
I didn't miss Cindy's point. I have read many articles on Schutzhund on your website and spoken to numerous Schutzhund trainers. I'm not trying to badmouth the sport - it certainly has its place, but to me thats what it is - sport. What I question is how its really a measure of a good tracking dog or a good working dog. I don't see how it is because its just not realistic. Thats what I'm looking at and I'm just wondering why it isn't more realistic.
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