hi all, i would appreciate your input.

a family of 10 (kids age 8-20) has spent the first 2 months of 'bonding' with their pup by roughhouse playing, providing little consistency, and correcting by using the alpha roll and occassionally bopping her in the nose with a newspaper.

The dog will play and train with the gentler family members for a bit, but then becomes growly and snappy after too much physical affection. With the harsher members of the family, the dog will take treats and train, but will then growl and snap almost immediately, especially when they touch her under her chin. if the family continues physical contact of any kind, the dog continues growling like crazy. the growling continues until they A. alpha roll B. Smack her or C. toss her into the crate (most recent response).

If the dog is ignored after it growls/snaps, it will stop and try to get away. If restrained on leash and ignored, the dog will tolerate light petting after 5-10 minutes.

I guess the pup has been put into fight/flight mode with all the pressures put on her so far in her young life. My question is: if the owners are educated and change, and the dog completes obedience courses, what is the liklihood of this pup overcoming her fear issues with this family? I do think her aggression is based in fear.

Thank you very much,
michelle

I'd suggest that the Alpha Roll could be causing some of your problems. Take a look at what I wrote about it.

http://leerburg.server294.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=147;t=000388

It's about the 3rd - 4th post down

yes, i would agree that the Alpha roll has caused some problems. thanks for link, but it doesn't work (may be my temperamental computer)

do you think the pup can change within the same family if they seriously change their tactics to a more effective approach?
thanks,
michelle

The dog has learned that growling is an acceptable way to get her point across. At about 4 months old, my little rottie girl got a nice big bone to eat and I went up and took it from her. She growled. She got one hell of a correction and she hasn't growled since. Obviously these people didn't efficiently communicate to the puppy that growling, nomatter what the circumstances, is NOT ok. With aggression, its not about increasing the severity of the correction as you go along; the first correction should rock the dog's world so that it doesn't even think about repeating the behavior.

I am not sure who invented the concept of rolling the puppy on its back as an alpha gesture, but I've never known a dog that its worked on. They need to break this habit right now because its not doing any good. Neither is throwing the puppy in the crate or smacking her on the nose with a newspaper. All of this is just confusing the dog and not sending any clear cut message. Neither is forcing the dog to be pet/held by using a leash.

One good correction is better than a thousand bad ones. Unfortunately these people have gone through so many bad corrections with this poor pup that they need a trainer ASAP to reverse the damage and send a clear cut message to the puppy. They also need to learn that the puppy deserves its space just like them. Its pretty much like having that annoying, clingy friend spend all day and night with you and they don't let up. You will finally snap at them to get them to go away. This puppy is using the same principles in her growling.

Essentially, these puppy has been in a bad environment. Unless they can change their ways I can't imagine their situation getting better. They need to learn

1) how to effectively correct the dog
2) how to correctly pet/interact with the dog
3) obedience/manner training for the dog


I can't imagine how a family of 10 will all get on the same page for training/rearing this puppy, but if their committed its still early enough to undo their early damage. They need to get to a real trainer and learn some common sense when it comes to dealing with their puppy.


Just my 2 cents. I hope they can succeed for the puppy's sake. This situation is just going to get a whole lot worse if they don't take care of it now.

I've discovered that the links I posted don't work.

To find the artice do a search for "establishing dominance" under my member number, 131.

thanks Lou, again...
i looked at all the subjects of all 200 posts i could find of yours and still don't see 'Establishing Dominance'. im sure it is an interesting read...
however, im pretty comfortable with establishing dominance in a non-aggressive way through daily leadership and training methods.

in my reading, i found this post to be relative and reassuring:
http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/80707/page/0/fpart/2/vc/1

my main concern is of course getting all the family on the same page. im willing to give them a chance to do it, however, if my check-ins reveal that this is not happening, my advice will change to rehoming the dog.

i was concerned about the imprinting this dog has had, and whether it would totally recover even in a different environment. Hopefully the last 2 months will not destroy its chances of a healthy, fulfilling life.

thanks for input,