Hey everybody! I've been lurking for a while, but this is my first post on the boards here. I have a question regarding play barking.

I have a 13 week old Mal puppy who barks (very shrill) when she is playing alone in her ex-pen (video). She does this primarily with her teaser ball. She will also play with her Goughnut ball and tennis ball just as enthusiastically without barking. She does not bark at all when we are playing in the back yard on a long lead.

We were at the vet earlier this week for her checkup, and she also went into her vocal play mode (bowed down, tail wagging, and shrill barking) when another dog came through the door -- just like she was engaging her teaser ball.

I like the fact that she is keeping herself entertained in her ex-pen, but I was hoping to get some suggestions on how to minimize the barking without discouraging her self-satisfying play too much (and while around other dogs).

Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks!

First, Mike, I ask you to watch this:

http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/238/So_You_Think_You_Want_a_High_Drive_Puppy/




Keep watching, all through the time when she';s alone and making the same high-pitched shrill sounds .....



After you watch it, I know we would all LOVE to hear your comments.



P.S. Did you decide on a Mal for sports reasons? What sport are you planning on?

Also P.S. ... WELCOME!

And ... are you marker training? Planning to?

P.S. By "other dogs," do you mean dogs in your home?

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

After you watch it, I know we would all LOVE to hear your comments.

P.S. Did you decide on a Mal for sports reasons? What sport are you planning on?

And ... are you marker training? Planning to?

Thanks for the quick reply, Connie! Now that you post that link, I remembered watching that video a long time ago, but had forgotten about the vocalization. I just found it curious that my pup (Maggi) only really vocalized with her teaser ball. Perhaps it's just more simulating than her other toys because she can never get to the center ball.

Fortunately, I'm not a complete stranger to high energy, high drive dogs. My last dog was a boxer that I got as a rescue when she was 3-4 months old. I wish I had known of the Leerburg training videos when I had my boxer. She was crate trained, but free to roam otherwise. She used to tear across the back of the couch like a stock car at Talladega Motor Speedway. The boxer was EXTREMELY vocal and was always growling and barking during play. I digress...

It just seemed a bit "out of the norm" for my Mal (Maggi) to bark at one particular toy. After (re)watching the video, it looks like I have nothing to coach her out of.

My fiance and I wanted a high-energy, athletic dog to be an active companion and also get involved with sports. We haven't narrowed in on a particular sport, but we're considering agility, dock diving, flyball, frisbee, tracking or possibly some Schutzhund (a cursory look revealed there are a couple of clubs within 60 miles of me). In short: sports, yes. Which one(s), TBD.

We have been marker training since we got her at 9 weeks. We've watched several Leerburg videos including: Your Puppy 8 Weeks to 8 Months, Establishing Pack Structure, The Power of Training with Food, The Power of Playing Tug, Training the Recall, and I've watched a bunch of the Q&A sessions with Michael Ellis on YouTube.

Maggi will do "sit", and that position has been placed on command due to demonstrated proficiency (with mild distraction). She knows "wait" when her crate door or sliding glass door is open. She will sit and wait until released with "okay". She also knows "kennel up" on command. My fiance and I have also been working on restrained recalls. Everything to this point has been positive reinforcement (treats) and negative punishment (withholding treats). She's not been getting physical corrections yet at her age.

Sorry for the long reply. I get carried away and ramble sometimes.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

P.S. By "other dogs," do you mean dogs in your home?

Missed this question before my other lengthy reply.

I mean "other dogs" like passers by when visiting the vet. We have a 7ish year old Chihuahua at home, but Maggi is not too vocal towards her, since she seems to understand that the Chi is part of the family pack.

There's a dog park about 10 minutes from our house, and I've done some engagement work with Maggi there (outside the fence on a long lead, of course) and that seems to have helped with the barking when we are in open spaces, but when there's limited room to jump around and "be interesting" to engage her (like at the vets office), I resort to stepping in front of her or taking her around a corner to block her view to the dog causing the stimulation.

My choice would be to take her around a corner, completely out of sight.
Just stepping in front of her would make it to easy for her to look around you or through your legs plus she's still to close to the distraction.
This is simply a matter of to much distraction because of not enough distance between her and the other dogs barking.

Time, distance, distraction! None should ever be put together without proofing individually.

When you add distance (or closeness in this instance) you never add distraction at the same time.
When you add distraction there should be more distance.
When you add time to the period the dog will be in close proximity then shorten the distance and distraction.
One thing at a time.

i don't see anything " wrong " with what that dog is doing , and i think you are going to have to just put up with it for a while . . . just share in her enthusiasm .

having said that however , i think you are being presented with the perfect opportunity to teach the " speak " command , and then , conversely , the " quiet " command .



with respect to the marker training . . . are you are using " okay " as the mark ?

 Quote: Bob Scott

Time, distance, distraction! None should ever be put together without proofing individually.

One thing at a time.

Great advise, Bob. Thank you for the clarification!

 Quote: ian bunbury

i think you are being presented with the perfect opportunity to teach the " speak " command , and then , conversely , the " quiet " command.

with respect to the marker training . . . are you are using " okay " as the mark ?

Thanks, Ian. I like your idea of using this opportunity to teach the "speak" and "quiet" commands.

In regards to her marker, I've been using "yes" as her formal marker. Whenever I say "yes" to mark an action, she receives a treat.

Let me clarify my use of "okay", so you can tell me if I'm using the release improperly. The ONLY time we use "okay" is when opening the door of her crate, ex-pen, or an exterior door to release her to cross the threshold. We give Maggi the opportunity to execute the "wait" behavior without the command. If she attempts to exit before the "okay" release, only then do we give the "wait" command, then release with "okay".

My reasoning (please tell me if it's flawed) for this is that we ALWAYS treat with food when marked with "yes". There is no food reward for "okay". I didn't want her to associate exiting the crate, ex-pen, or house as an event that gets her rewarded with a food treat.

i think what you are doing is "okay" lol . . .

in this case , your scenarios are consistent , your expectation is consistent , you are marking consistently , and the reward is the freedom to go through the threshold .

works for me . . .


there might be a time when you get caught accidentally releasing her , because the word " okay " is so prevalent in our everyday language , but whatever . . .


i've had henry doing something , someone asks me a question to which i reply " yes " , and here comes henry looking for his reward . pretty funny demonstration of the power of markers , and the degree to which our dogs pay attention to the things we do and say .

I use 'YES' for a marker....but for a release the way that you are using 'okay'....I use the word 'FREE'. It is less frequently used in everyday conversations.

Ian with respect to you comment about Henry coming running when the word 'yes' was spoken. I watch the TV show jeopardy all the time...one night, a few years ago, the final question was a real tuffy...can't remember right now what it was....but I knew the answer & none of the contestants did...so when the answer was given...I said 'YES' in the same voice that I use with the dogs' marker. Well both my dogs came running into the room looking at me for their treats. So yes, we have to be careful what we say & an eye on our dogs no matter where we are....they don't ever miss a thing!