I work alone with my 7 month old gsd. Restrained recall is hard to use with a 20 ft. Leash because he usually follows me around close. In many of the situations I've set up to distract him from coming on call the leash is wrapped in his legs, and I don't want to injure him by pulling then. Any ideas out there I can use to achieve this? Thanx.

Where are you in the recall ? You mention distraction setups. Have you worked within a small area first? (Do you know the term "area of influence," a term Bob Scott taught me years ago?)

Do you have a reliable recall in a small area with no distractions?


Also, while you mention having him on a long line (which is GREAT), your real goal is not to have to reel him in. That's backup, but not your aim.

P.S. I've taught the recall to all my dogs alone. Don't think that's a handicap .... it's merely a somewhat different M.O.

We work in many different areas now but started in house, then yard, then field. He absolutely knows the command but instead of responding at issue of come, often times he'll wait until he wants to come. When something he wants comes into view like a dog or whatever he refuses to respond at all. This is off leash, when I am most concerned he comes. When I put a leash on him he's great..in fact good enough where long leash training is impossible at least how I'm trying it.I've considered shock collar since its the only way I can possibly get his off leash behavior to kick in so I can correct it???

 Quote: Robert overbeek

We work in many different areas now but started in house, then yard, then field. He absolutely knows the command but instead of responding at issue of come, often times he'll wait until he wants to come. When something he wants comes into view like a dog or whatever he refuses to respond at all. This is off leash, when I am most concerned he comes. When I put a leash on him he's great..in fact good enough where long leash training is impossible at least how I'm trying it.I've considered shock collar since its the only way I can possibly get his off leash behavior to kick in so I can correct it???

IMHO, you have started off leash WAY too soon. You have also used the recall at times when you were not sure of compliance and had no backup (long line). When you do this, you teach that the recall is optional. I don't mean anything about corrections (not at all) ..... I mean that you are instilling the idea that the recall is "if you feel like it."

IMHO, you're thinking of an e-collar WAY too soon.

The recall (for me) is not taught with compulsion. For one thing, it's so easy and so much fun to teach it with the aim the "the dog loves to hear you call him!"



I just want to say again that he's off leash WAY too soon.

It would be really useful if you want t tell us exactly how you did the groundwork. There are a lot of recall experts on this board, and to have details about how you trained it will help us all.

What do you do when he comes to you? Try moving around when you call him, throw a ball when he gets near you. Have you ever played two ball? Make running to you fun. Fun enough that he really wants to get there.

Aw heck...I suppose its time to go visit randy Rhodes again so he can watch and correct my mistakes. Thanx for the insights.

"He absolutely knows the command but instead of responding at issue of come, often times he'll wait until he wants to come".

You need to make the recall the most important behavior he can do.
That means you have to give the dog a reason to come and reward based with markers will do that.

If you know he has a good chance of refusing then you should never call him. That just enforces his belief that he doesn't have to come on the first call...or the second... yadda, yadda.
I suspect your possibly using correction training for the recall?

Dogs aren't stubborn or flipping you the bird when they refuse a command. They are confused! He's confused and NOT ignoring you.
Make your self the most important thing in his life and not something to ignore or fear which will come next if things don't change.

As per Connie above, go back to basics and don't add time, distance or distractions untill he's ROCK solid at closer distances with less time, distance or distractions.

Thank you Bob, actually I was considering maybe that would be the way to go. You just confirmed it!! I have had guidance at the kennal club the past 2 months and done what they said. I did question whether they were moving too fast but had faith they knew there stuff. Then I found this site and got really confused because of the difference. I've been watching the power of food and using the concepts mike lays out. With good results so far. The restrained recall/ tug/ chase games to build better engagement.. Guess its time to back up.

something i'd like to add to this discussion . . . the difference between what i call a " field recall " , as in , the dog is way over there , i'm way over here , and i want him to come back close to me .

this is different than a formal obedience recall where the dog is in a sit over there and when i issue the command the dog is expected to come to a sit in front of me .

two very different behaviors in the mind of the dog , with different expectations from dog and handler .

so often i see people confusing the dog by issuing a " come " command expecting the dog to come straight away to a sit , but not holding up their part of the bargain by moving all around , saying any number of other words , inconsistent finishes ( if at all ) and little to no reward for the dog . all of this really plants the question in the dogs' mind : " what is expected of me , and it is it even worth the effort ? "

i use a simple " here " if i just want the dog to come into my proximity . i'll make sure i'm moving away from the dog and leaving space so the dog is encouraged to come into that space . reward with food or toy and happy voice tone and body language . the dog learns that any time i want him near me is going to lead to happy times . a formal recall can grow out of that , but as the others have said , that should be the best behavior your dog learns and knows .

if i'm trail walking or bush whacking , i use " this way " or " here we go " which means we're now going in this direction , and doesn't necessarily require a contact at all , the freedom of the movement is its' own reward . if the dog does swing by i'll have a hand down with a food reward in it to further reinforce that coming by me does lead to good things .

if you are looking for consistent behaviors in your dog , then the handler must also be consistent in his commands and his behaviors ( and rewards ) . and of course , be realistic in your expectations given the unique challenges that each new situation presents . this could include the format ( ob vs field ) , terrain , distractions , distance , weather and anything else that might make one " recall " different from another " recall " .

hope that helps . . .

Thank you very much Ian. You explained that well. I listened to a trainer and was introduced to the prong collar and how to fit and use it. I didn't question it since he is VERY accomplished trainer/competitor. My pup for the past couple weeks had appeared to go through a behavior change...I couldn't figure out why. A few days ago I took the collar off and started from the beginning again. Marker/treat praise. WOW..his actions totally changed and he seems very happy and loves to work again. I'm not into competition training, just good companion. The recall is once again coming along great...just a recall so if were out in the woods or on a boat and he goes swimming I can get him to return to me and not wander off...once again Thanx....PS. Im stillr learning also.