I've changed the breed I use for hunting to coonhounds. My oldest pup Pepper is almost a year old, she listens well in the house and backyard. However when she goes out in public all the new and strange scents have her following her nose and she pulls as hard as she can against the choker style collar.
I have asked several other hunters and on several forums. The general consensus is I am wasting my time, that they are to focused on their noses. I refuse to belive that they cannot be educated to behave reasonably well in public. I would be happy if she didn't pull on the leash, heal and quit sniffing every crotch in her vicinity.


Thanks, Sam

 Quote: Sam Howitt

I've changed the breed I use for hunting to coonhounds. My oldest pup Pepper is almost a year old, she listens well in the house and backyard. However when she goes out in public all the new and strange scents have her following her nose and she pulls as hard as she can against the choker style collar.
I have asked several other hunters and on several forums. The general consensus is I am wasting my time, that they are to focused on their noses. I refuse to belive that they cannot be educated to behave reasonably well in public. I would be happy if she didn't pull on the leash, heal and quit sniffing every crotch in her vicinity.


Thanks, Sam

bump

That's a tough one since your hound is almost a yr old. Starting with a new pup obviously would be better but you've got what you got.

The fact that you use your dogs for hunting is huge if you expect to keep their nose off the ground.

I hunted in the earth with working terriers. They have a great nose also but when I tried to teach one of my Borders to man track after he had been hunted for a while it just didn't work. He was rock solid on a man track as long as no critter crossed the trail. I never did get a tracking title on that dog but he was great in the ground.

A couple of answers
Learn marker training. Lots of excellent info here. It's basically non confrontational, reward based training. That would be my first choice by far.

You could also get rid of the choker style collar. Even if I was using correction training exclusively I would be using a pinch collar. The are actually much easier on the dog then the standard "choker" collar.

I agree with Mr. Scott, get rid of the choker.

I think too, it depends on what kind of social conduct you're looking for. If you want the dog to walk, and sit and ignore stuff, you might not be playing to the dog's strengths.

A place to take the dog that offers all kinds of smells and distractions is a place like Pet Smart, and you don't have to buy anything.

I don't know if the strategy would work but you could visit a place like that for 20 or so minutes, gently directing and correcting the dog, and then go directly to a field to play to the dog's hunting strengths. A kind of behavioral compartmentalization. It would be a lot of work but it plays to train and reward.

Two sides of your objectives for training.

In truth, I have no clue but I have taken advantage of taking dogs to stores that permit dogs, and worked to focus the dog on me, while not dampening their natural inquisitiveness. It has the added advantage of tempering a person's training frustrations in that other people are watching your techniques. Not too elegantly put.

As I have noted, I have no clue, except for the collar.

Early on in visiting new places, I noted that both schools and parking lots are chock full of OMG SMELL THAT ONE MORE TIME spots - visiting those in the early morning or late at night may be a great way to work on getting her to focus on you, not her nose. I would almost think that you could get her used to being on asphalt as a no-hunt zone? So she can learn that that is a place that she needs to pay attention to you?

Bob and Mike made some interesting points...

"You're not playing to the dog's strengths"; Not saying what you ask can't be done, but even if dog learns not to critter, it will always be a conflict for the dog. Some dogs don't cope with that stress well. Just food for thought.

"That's a tough one since your hound is a year old.": I adopted a 2.5yo GSD who critters obsessively. We work on it constantly, but 3+ years later, it is still a huge distraction and interferes with training. Again, what you seek may be possible, but it MAY require constant training and management.

All JMO.

Your arrangement makes me curious. I've lived in rural and semi-rural areas much of my life, here in the deep south. I know many hunters, and I've also owned a few hunting breeds, though I don't hunt. Most of the hunters I know isolate their hounds from social interactions and too much freedom in order to maintain the instincts that drive their dogs; instincts that often have to be squashed if the dog were to be sociable. (I would exclude retrievers from that statement, as sociability does not interfere with the retrieving work or training, and many retrievers make good companion dogs.) Is hunting or being a companion dog more important in your situation?

Sam, one of your issues, the crotch-sniffing, should be pretty easy to address, since you always have advance warning that the tempting target is approaching. It's quite different than an invisible scent on the ground that your dog is aware of but you are not.

I would use marker training to teach the dog to redirect her attention to you when you ask for it. When a potential target is approaching, be proactive and go into redirection mode before she can even think about pulling toward the person. Mark and reward! Use her very favorite treats! Make it fun for her!

There are several ways of redirecting her, but I would start by teaching her to look at me when I ask for it. I use the word "Watch", but you can use anything you want. Start in a distraction-free environment, then gradually increase the distraction level until she understands that she is to give her attention to you anytime you ask for it.

At the same time, I would be working with her on doing what my instructors generally call a "back-away" on the leash. In other words, I see someone approaching that I know the dog is going to be interested in, so before she even gets a chance to start lunging and sniffing, I start to back away and ask the dog to follow me. (Or back off to the side, whatever it takes to get out of the approaching person's way.) The object is to have the dog turn and come to you face-on, not for you to be pulling the dog backwards. Some prefer a verbal cue for this, like "This Way," others want the dog to learn to respond to their body language and/or slight leash pressure. In your case, since she's oblivious to leash pressure (and believe me, I've been in your shoes and I sympathize!), I would use a verbal cue.

Then, while the interesting person is passing, you can work on keeping the dog's attention with the Watch command, or even alternate with other commands the dog knows like Sit or Down, whatever it takes to keep the dog engaged with you and not thinking about sniffing crotches.

Teaching this type of redirection and engagement may then be of help in working on the leash-pulling and sniffing things on the ground. Be prepared to be patient, though. This will take time, especially, as others have noted, with a one-year-old dog who has made a habit of it and has her natural hunting instincts to contend with.

Don't be surprised if you teach your dog not to do something, then he won't do it when you want him to. If hunting the dog is a priority, I'd SERIOUSLY consider whether I'd want to desensitize him from crittering.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a dog to walk nicely on a loose leash and respect personal space. Even other dogs would consider a close contact crotch sniff from a dog that just barged in rude. For me it would receive the same automatic correction that barging through doorways, mugging me for food, or other universally rude acts would. If the dog was a social klutz with no concept of personal space with both dogs and humans I would teach a "Leave it" command. A lot of people teach that as not even sniffing or looking at the object but I only require that my dog not touch or approach it. Sniffing from a distance is allowed.

I would move to a prong. Do you have a collar you can use only for hunting? Does your hunting require the dog to move on a leash uninhibited?

If the dog starts to pull you stop in your tracks until you get a nice loose leash again. The second the dog puts slack in the lead you start moving again. It can take a bit at first but it's pretty clear to the dog and normally goes fairly quick. I've had dogs so high energy that they're doing a pogo stick impression but they still knew they weren't going anywhere without slack in the lead.

Within the boundaries of not putting slack in the leash the dog or barging up to people crotches the dog can sniff whatever he wants. I don't read this as you looking for a real formal heel. You just want the dog to not pull right?

Something to add that may help:

I would clearly define WORK and OFF DUTY times for the dog. This can be done by using a specific piece of equipment and routine that indicates to the dog that it is SNIFFING time.

With new detection dogs, we use a harness and a routine that includes predictable things that ultimately lead up to the dog searching, and then predictable things that lead to downtime.