I am a green handler. I have never used an e collar. My main objective was to obtain a reliable recall and platz while under significant distraction. Purchased the ET400 w/ the 2 receivers and Ed's dvd.

I have been very cautious and conservative in training with it. I have tried my best to follow the dvd and have been very pleased with the results.

Initially I thought 21 was her number but it seemed to have no effect when she was distracted. Therefore I went through the process again and honestly I could see absolutely no reaction to the stim until 55 so we went with that.

The few times its been used for it she has left the distraction(s) and returned. That was the biggie if nothing else it was a success for that.

Then I started working on platz while 25-30 yards away. Initially she would ignore the stims (on M-not Continuous) and return to me before responding with her platz. The last time she responded quickly at 25-30 yards with NO stim. She remains happy; will eat treats etc.

On only 2 ocassions in a couple weeks training did I see any indication that it might be too high-with a little jerk once and a little yelp once. On ALL the rest of the several stims there was no reaction noticable other than compliance and as I said she was ignoring it at first anyway to return to me before platzing.

So needless to say I am pleased. However I have been told by a much more experienced e collar user that I have moved too fast and am using WAY to high a stim level. So yesterday evening I went through the whole process again-starting with 7. I took alot of time and applied stim as she was just being her typical self laying around in the tv room looking out the window etc. There was absolutely no reaction; not the faintest twitch of an ear or even a hair; not an eye blink not nothing-until I got all the way up to 37 when I observed a small little twitch on one side.

I put the collar on extra snug-1 hole tighter than usual- just to be ABSOLUTELY sure that at least 1 of the receivers was in good contact although honestly I believe as snug as it was both of them had to be. Now I am fairly confident that under distraction the 37 might not be enough since we had been working with 55 but I DON'T KNOW. I am inexperienced and that is why I am asking you guys your thoughts on this.

The dog is a 3 year old Belgian Malinois- extremely obedient and while she is a hard dog she rarely ever needs a correction. The whole e collar purpose was to obtain reliable compliance under strong distraction since as a search dog it could be a life and death issue since she has to work off lead a distance away from me. I have used this same collar holding it in my hand and I want nothing higher than a 17-19 thats as far as I'm comfortable so I can only imagine what 37 or higher might be and yet up to that point the stims did not appear to even be noticable to her-they didn't even interrupt her when she was laying down resting or looking out the window or anything-it was like it was imperceptible to her. Have you ever heard of this or am I way off base? Can her number actually be that high or do they sometimes just consciously and deliberately endure but not let on? Right now it has been a great success story. She is responding better than she ever did before e collar training and is definely not stressed in the least. So I can fix anything I am doing wrong BEFORE it does any harm. So that is why I am asking this now. Is something wrong that the stim levels I have been using are so high or are there some strange wired dogs out there that require such an abnormally (?) high stim? Thanks-sorry this was so long I just wanted to be clear. We have been training wit it for 6-8 weeks having taken the 2 full weeks to condition her to it as Ed said. That also worked beautifully. She actually comes to me and wants it put on if she hears me pick it up because she knows it will be marked and rewarded.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/03/2014 06:10 PM)
Edit reason: made paragraphs

bump

I use my ET400 E-collar now for I think 2 years on my GSD.
If the dog doesn't react to it, then most of the time, it doesn't have contact (not tight enough).

Here are my other experiences: The settings are from 0-99. The dog notices constant 9. Me and my wife cannot feel that. He can tolerate constant 80 in high drive without changing his train of thought, but you see muscles twitching.
In a few occasions he squealed as if i stabbed him, when i press any button on the remote, but it was not even turned on. He was obviously messing with me.

I train my dog with markers. He disobeyed, I told him no, he looked at me, i put my finger on the button of the remote, he disobeyed, I pushed the button. He took the hit. He was obviously checking, if the collar was on.

I gave up on the collar. I now use it only as additional recall method (vibrate means come back to me) and on constant 100, if he really disobeys my command and goes to run into traffic, or goes after another dog.

With my dog, I need the collar, if I walk him off leash. I like the ET-400 very much, but I do not use it to train the dog. I have more success for a solid recall with marker training. I can say with confidence, that my dog has the best recall in town, and that has nothing to do with the E-Collar, it was the result of marker training.

I can't help responding to this, even though it does not directly answer the O.P.

QUOTE (Michael, above):
" I have more success for a solid recall with marker training. I can say with confidence, that my dog has the best recall in town, and that has nothing to do with the E-Collar, it was the result of marker training."


All of my dogs have excellent recalls, including off-leash. All of them were marker trained, as Michael says, with careful proofing for distraction and venue and lots of continuing reinforcement (in the form of brush-up training as well as random VHV {very high value} rewards).

Recall training never "stops" for me, and it always starts the same way (indoors, with zero distraction). (Thank you to Bob Scott for that. )

I never ever recall a dog to be corrected. There is never a bad result for the dog for complying with the recall.

As we start, I always always use the recall whenever ANYTHING pleasant for the dog is about to happen, inside or out. I never use my recall if I have ANY doubt about compliance (unless I have the ability to reel him in on a long line). I don't have the dog unleashed outside (unless in a contained area) until the recall is rock-solid.

I even proof it for "bad" voice, which I also learned from Bob Scott ..... that is, we proof it (later, after other proofing, for distraction, venue, and distance) down the line against the chance that I might shout or even scream in some situation, so the dog learns that the tone of voice will never negate the positive result for him of compliance.



But also, there will be other responses that directly address the O.P.

Teach the dog that coming to you is the absolute best thing on earth.

That means no pressure from you.
Starting as you did I think you unknowingly create avoidance for the e-collar. Not uncommon for in experienced trainers.

I can't give any tips on the e-colar because I've never used one.

As Connie mentioned,. start in an area with NO distractions and no way for the dog to get away from you. For me that means in the house in a hallway OR the dog leashed in a fenced yard with NO distractions.

Stay close meaning 5-6ft. Mark and reward the dog when it comes to you even if you haven't given it a command unless of course you want it to stay in place. That may require a "stay" command or just a sit command.
Being close the dog will be in your area of influence and much less likely to run or go into avoidance.

Don't add distance, time, or distraction until the dog is solid at the distance your working on.

Never add distance, distraction, or time in the same training session.

This means don't expect a "platz" at any distance at all until the platz AND recall are solid at the distance. Your just adding confusion and contaminating both commands.

Keep it close! Keep it fun! Teach with marker training!

All is well. I called the manufacturer and they IMMEDIATELY identified my problem-------I had the wrong contacts on the receivers! It came with 3 different ones and in my inexperience I was just using the ones that came on it which were wrong. When I put on the ones they told me- the 3/4" ones- her number came down to the more logical 15-18. I think it is noteworthy that despite my ignorance and inexperienced mistakes all is well and it is, has been, and I'm confident will continue to be a positive effective training experience because I was very careful to follow all of the advice in Ed's video. I am very grateful to Leerburg. I have never gone wrong following their advice and the good dog I have now is a direct result of ya'lls guidance. Special thanks to Ed & Cindy for guiding me along and answering my questions etc. Engagement rules! Thanks again!

 Quote: Donna Logsdon

All is well. I called the manufacturer and they IMMEDIATELY identified my problem-------I had the wrong contacts on the receivers! It came with 3 different ones and in my inexperience I was just using the ones that came on it which were wrong. When I put on the ones they told me- the 3/4" ones- her number came down to the more logical 15-18. I think it is noteworthy that despite my ignorance and inexperienced mistakes all is well and it is, has been, and I'm confident will continue to be a positive effective training experience because I was very careful to follow all of the advice in Ed's video. I am very grateful to Leerburg. I have never gone wrong following their advice and the good dog I have now is a direct result of ya'lls guidance. Special thanks to Ed & Cindy for guiding me along and answering my questions etc. Engagement rules! Thanks again!

Good job!

Yes, you are definitely in the right place when you follow Ed and Cindy's e-collar instructions!

(It happened that your responses here came largely from folks who don't use the e-collar much, so we offered what we do for the recall. {I had emailed one of the e-collar moderators to respond, but she's away, so I'm very glad you called the manufacturer.})

Now that you've signed up, I hope you keep posting!