first bad, I have an exceptionally long barrelled gsd, after getting hyped on ME videos I trained a return to heel as a flip. works for a square shaped mal but not so much for a rectangle gsd. worse yet I missed the bit that a heel comes from a front, seemed so much quicker to race straight back to the side. my dog is really good at running full stride and flipping to the side no front.

of course this is all comp stuff and there is no practical reason I can think of for any of it.

so I want to do a front then flip. in a front the dog cannot flip without somehow moving laterally as I take up space the dog has to compensate for to get from front to side.

looking for clear mechanics on this, I don't recall it in any ME vids.

tips and clear how to clips?

HUH?! Dog body shape has nothing to do with this. It is muscle memory & consistency in only rewarding the correct positions. I have taught it to 4 different GSDs with no problem at all. This can be easier for some dogs to do then others..But they all figure out how to move their bodies to get into position.

Start over from the beginning............

Teach the formal front position. Dog should be sitting square in front of you, almost touching you, with head raised up with eye contact. When it is solid then & only then do you ask for the heel guiding the dog into the position from the front, (helping/guiding with a leash, if you need to do that...I never had to use a leash) & luring with food or a toy into the correct heel using a 'flip'. IF you need to use the leash... it is basically to keep the dog from pulling away from you not used to force the dog into position at all.

The way I taught the formal front...I start with baby pups..it is the first thing I teach...but never give it a name until they are older. Call the dog over to to you & hold a toy or treat at waist level in front of you....as the dog comes up to you back up a little bit at a time until the dog comes in square & raise the toy or food up which forces the dog to put his but down & head up & mark & reward. Mark only the correct straight square sit position. But some do it better than others..making it sharper & crisper.

All my dogs have been raised from young pups with markers. This should all be VERY easy to teach to any dog with a markers training background. I don't have the means to video this...maybe others do.

When I said sharper & crisper....I meant the 'flip' not the formal front position.

thanks for tips, going to start it from the beginning...again.

I think in future for a long bodied dog I will do the around the back style finish.

Then just teach the dog to come into a heel from going around you. No need for the flip. Either is acceptable in SchH work...don't know about AKC or other venues.

My dogs know both. Heel is go around me & Fuss for formal heel is flip. Although most of the time my commands are in German. Mine also do an informal heel ...with a 'walk with me' command....for taking an on leash walk together.

Ditto with Anne on getting the front solid.

From thee I would use the finish, regardless of method only 3-4 times out of ten in order to keep the dog from anticipating.

It's like a person that teaches the down from a sit to often. The dog wants to do right so it goes into a down right away.

One of my dogs I competed in AKC with started anticipating the finish because I taught it by walking forward and bumping the dog with mu knee and "correcting" it into position at the same time.

Not so much anticipating by going into the finish position byt he would start leaning to my left as soon as he got into the front position.

I started teaching the go around finish and used both finishes randomly.

That kept him from the lean simply because he no longer knew what the next command would be.

Ditto with Anne and Bob on getting the front solid.

And JMHO ..... forget about the dog's body shape.

got bit again, handler error.

practicing the fronts, dog has been coming in nicely and started doing his own little bark and hold thing waiting for the ball to release while tight in front.

it was dark and I thought I would have a quick unplanned training session.

picked up a stick instead of ball, concealed the stick inside my hands so dog could not get it until he held the hold, I gave him a release but cos he was in so tight I did not get enough time to clear the hand from the stick and wore one right on the bony part on top of the flat of the hand, no meat but the hand was crushed like in a vice.

I went down from the pain like a sac of potatoes.

hand is way swollen.

dog strikes like a freakin cobra, sorry this was all about me and dog but for a big dog he is very quick, think this dog should be bred, makes a lot of other gsd look dull imo.