Hello- haven't been here in eons, so forgive me or delete if I've broken some new rule posting this here, but I thought this was worth posting. This topic (OSS) has been discussed in so many forums here and there for so long I thought I'd let everyone know that I had this procedure done on my foundation bitch on Monday.

After years of asking, I finally found a vet willing to do it. The vet I used was LePar Animal Hospital in Evergreen Park, IL. Dr. Cutright (how could I go wrong w/Cutright?!) and Dr. Whalen (practice owner) were actually pretty excited to do it, since they'd offered it to others and not gotten any takers. Price was quite reasonable and they handled my dog well...and she is not an easy dog to handle.

Here is a link to the practice.
http://www.leparvet.com

If you use them and tell them I referred you, you will get $20 off your visit. Hey, $20 is $20, right?! They also do acupuncture, formulate raw diets for special needs, do not require vaccinations, and have great supplements. I did not have to vaccinate her to have the surgery; I simply had to sign a waiver and she was kept in isolation, which I was happy about since I often have pups around and worry about adults dragging viruses home from the vet.

Anyway, feel free to PM me with any questions you may have. I highly recommend the procedure and the veterinarian. I had all but given up on finding a vet to do this procedure.

Interesting stuff. A friend of mine had just recently sent me a link about this topic. I'm going to look more into the pros and cons of each type of procedure. I wonder if the OSS lessens the likelihood of spay incontinence?

Yes, absolutely. Lack of ovaries, especially if removed young, is a key component in spay incontinence.

Hi Jenni, only a quick aside, but might that be an all-black Akita in your photo? Just curious, thanks

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Yes, absolutely. Lack of ovaries, especially if removed young, is a key component in spay incontinence.

That makes sense. Continued estrogen production = well-toned bladder/pelvic muscles, to my understanding. Another plus is no uterus = no chance of pyometra.

Might the other side of the coin be that continued estrogen production increases a bitch's chance of developing mammary cancer?

Cheri, it's not just that. When they're not physically mature and spayed the chances of spay incontinence are much higher due to improper growth/maturation from lack of hormones. Hormones are critical for more than reproduction.

Sure, estrogen production can increase chances of mammary cancer, just like having a brain increases the chances of a brain tumor and having testicles increases the chances of testicular cancer. In a bitch who's already had more than a couple heat cycles, there is practically zero benefit to removing ovaries for the purpose of decreasing chances of mammary cancer.

Candi, that's a GSD.

Jenni, you addressed another question that was floating around in my mind. It seems to me I have heard/read that delaying spay surgery until a bitch has reached physical maturity does indeed lessen the chance of spay incontinence. So it sounds like, just as there are good reasons to delay neutering of males until physical maturity (if that's something you're going to do), it also holds true for females.

I'm very interested in all of this, not only because I'm sure I will have another female dog at some point in the future, but also because the breed I have owned for decades happens to be known for a high incidence of spay incontinence.

The girl I had previously was intact until she developed pyo at age seven, resulting in an emergency spay. About a year after that, she developed mammary cancer. We were lucky in a couple of ways. She never developed incontinence, and the cancer never came back. She lived to age twelve.

So I guess I'm just thinking ahead to choices I will have to make with future dogs.

Did you breed the female you had that got pyo at 7 and mammary cancer at 8?

Like in human women, there seems to be a higher incidence of mammary cancer in females who were never bred or bred very minimally as compared to the number of heat cycles they had. With pyo, it's much the same. Risk increases in breeding females once you stop breeding them. Intact bitches who are bred regularly are less likely to get either affliction according to years of research I've done on the topic, as well as my own anecdotal experience and experiences of other breeders who have been in the game much longer than I have. Females who were never ever bred seem to be the most dominant demographic of pyo sufferers, then next are females who maybe had one litter young and never again. The body seems well-equipped to protect itself from disease if nature is allowed to take its course to some level. Estrogen is thought to decrease chances of other cancers common in large breeds, while nursing litters is thought to have a protective effect in terms of mammary cancer. If the reproductive system is never used, as they age, they seem to be more prone to disease of it than if it were functioning as nature intended for much of their lives.

Now, we can't breed every female because it seems to be the healthiest thing for the individual in terms of preventing pyo and mammary cancer, of course, so to me, the OSS is a good alternative. We have to remember that a healthy immune system is a great way to prevent disease, so between an OSS and healthy diet, minimal chemicals & vaccines, hopefully we can keep females in good shape into their teens.

Your dog supports the theory of the less spay incontinence if allowed to mature, but I have found articles saying removing ovaries still results in spay incontinence even if they're not immature- it just occurs later in life and seems to correlate to the number of years they had ovaries. I really should look up some of my articles I'm quoting from memory. There's a really cool one about longevity being directly relating to how long a dog had ovaries. It was done on Rotts.

I chose to do this w/Capri because she cycles 3x per year and I retired her in 2012, so if she lives into her teens, she'll have roughly another 20+ heat cycles without the protective benefits of whelping and nursing pups. I didn't want to be doing an emergency spay on a 12yr old bitch. I decided to do it when she's still uber healthy and strong.

On a male, I don't know why you'd not just do a vasectomy. There aren't any benefits I can find to neutering a male at all, unless he gets testicular cancer, and neutering can be curative at that point.

This board used to be full of experienced folks who were very interested in optimal health issues; I'm kind of surprised you're the only one interested in this. Seems a lot of dogs could benefit from their owners asking their vet about this.

As an aside, I don't know where in MI you are but I know of a vet in MI who does an OSS for under $150!

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Candi, that's a GSD.

Thanks for clarifying, Jenni -- I had an Akita and love the breed, is why I asked

Following with interest, Jenni - I just have no experience with bitches For the future, however.

I do wish vas was more readily available for males. Would have been a good choice for my mutt, I don't think it's going to do his (bad) hips any favors in the long run to have lost his testosterone supply 20/20 hind sight.