in the fangs and fray, Ed needs to put this bad boy in his lines to freshen them up ;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiTBB70RFso&feature=youtu.be

4 minutes of a dark screen with some dogs boincing around . . . i think Ed is going to need to see something a bit more substantive before he considers whatever that was for his program pete .

or was that a " lol " ?

it was indeed.

think of it this way, if it wasn't kidding around then it was an advertisement, do you really think that is an advertisement I would pitch at a 30 year german shepherd breeder?

Ed & Cindy are no longer actively breeding any dogs.

Two things here.

#1 I see no correlation between a dog baying a cat and a good working GSD.

#2 You will NEVER see Ed and Cindy allowing "any" of their dogs to do anything but ignore a cats and vs versa.

That's a very important part of their imprinting/training at Leerburg.

Look at many of Ed's training videos and you will see cats wandering all over the place including right in front of the dogs.

Their cats have no fear of the dogs and the dogs have no fear of the cats. Nor do either have any desire to chase, bite, slap, etc one another. They are both just "there".

Bob you might want to read the post about two up from yours.


as for point #1 I disagree there is no correlation, in fact I think working dogs of any breed are only possible because of such primitive survival traits, I would go as far as this;

hunting + herding is everything that underlies all useful working traits in every working dog venue.

without, then you necessarily have nothing more than a living rag doll.

prolly not worded the best but that is about the only thing I am absolutely certain of in dog knowledge.

I even think herding is a bit redundant cos it is a subset of hunting, I just added it for the biddability aspect.

altho I started off chasing the little tuskers around the place I now feel I have evolved past it, it is physical like mma for dogs for sure but it is not that challenging in terms of brain input from the dog.

cats are smart, agile, fast, elusive, and have a vertical dimension. people should try it with their dogs in the wild before they judge.

Cats are smart?

Peter. I get what your saying but I don't think the "primal instincts to chase and kill another animal is the same with most dogs.

I've done a lot of hunting above and below ground with my terriers and I've very rarely seen one that would or even could transfer that to a human.

In the few instances of wild dogs it was almost always because the dogs hae lost their fear of humans simply because of to much exposure to being fed in the wild etc,

I think the Dingo is an excellent example. Most of their attack on humans would fit this description.

As for cats

The average cat is much more independent from humans compared to the average dog.

Which is smarter is comparing apples to oranges so I don't think that will ever be answered. I don't think being trainable has as much to do with intelligence as it does genetics they are born with and how much humans have distorted or controlled those genes.

I think cats are very "intelligent" based on survival tactics.

Each has it's strong points and weak points but I would give survival in the wild to the cat, hands down.

In a traditional sense cats have never been bred for biddability compared to being bred for looks. With dogs it was a very intentional effort till the show world got hold of them.

killing another animal has nothing to with the traits I was referring to, I am yet to see a PSD being sent to go kill people.

killing animals in some cases is not conducive to survival, look at a perfect pit bull, it would not last more than 1 generation in the wild if that.


the hunt cycle is what we have tapped into and either enhance or supress along with certain physical characteristics to invent all the working breeds we have.

I can't see why others don't get it.

I will agree about all hunting dog behaviors relate back to wild canines hunting in the wild.

The bird dog pointing is a bred for controlled version of the stalk.

The retrieve is a bred for controlled version of bringing food home for the pups.

Herding is a bred for controlled version of containing for the kill.

yes! All from hunting behaviors because of many generations of selective breeding.

Selecting from any group of hunting dogs for adding to established behaviors in working lines just ignores all the selective breeding in the past in any particular line.

Now, selecting certain behaviors for the reason of developing a certain characteristic that you find/desire in your own lines would make sense.

A group of dogs that are hunting and baying a particular quarry wouldn't benefit anyone other then hunting dogs of those particular quarrys.