Hi Everyone,

I Have 3 dogs, 2 sharpei's - gracie 4yrs, Razor 2yrs and Jack our 4.5 mo old shepherd pup.

My husband went home today for lunch (i was still at work) let Jack out of his cage and went out back with all of them for their potty break. As soon as my husband sat down Jack went for a chew chip (I know it shouldnt have been out) and Gracie attacked Jack. My husband who is 6ft and 250lbs said it took everything he had to get gracies jaws off of him, he tried to get Jack in the house and she went after him again and grabbed on- husband finally got her off and got Jack in the house. He said Gracie was going to kill him, hes very shook up over it. She was shaking and biting his neck and face-Jack did not fight back and luckily he has no wounds.

I'm very upset of course. I've been through this before with a couple my shepherds and they were separated for the rest of their lives.

Gracie and Jack are both in cages now and Razor is loose in the house. My husband and I are back to work - so how do I handle this? Total separation for now I'm sure? NILIF for all dogs or just Gracie?

I've been working with Jack to do competition obedienc with him-we are taking the relationship games course with Mark right now- is this gonna screw him up as far as other dogs and doing competition obedience with him down the road?

I guess I need guidance and advice, very heartbreaking to think I will have to do the whole separation thing more than likely and I should have did things different from the beginning -

 Quote: Kathy West

Hi Everyone,

I Have 3 dogs, 2 sharpei's - gracie 4yrs, Razor 2yrs and Jack our 4.5 mo old shepherd pup.

My husband went home today for lunch (i was still at work) let Jack out of his cage and went out back with all of them for their potty break. As soon as my husband sat down Jack went for a chew chip (I know it shouldnt have been out) and Gracie attacked Jack. My husband who is 6ft and 250lbs said it took everything he had to get gracies jaws off of him, he tried to get Jack in the house and she went after him again and grabbed on- husband finally got her off and got Jack in the house. He said Gracie was going to kill him, hes very shook up over it. She was shaking and biting his neck and face-Jack did not fight back and luckily he has no wounds.

I'm very upset of course. I've been through this before with a couple my shepherds and they were separated for the rest of their lives.

Gracie and Jack are both in cages now and Razor is loose in the house. My husband and I are back to work - so how do I handle this? Total separation for now I'm sure? NILIF for all dogs or just Gracie?

I've been working with Jack to do competition obedienc with him-we are taking the relationship games course with Mark right now- is this gonna screw him up as far as other dogs and doing competition obedience with him down the road?

I guess I need guidance and advice, very heartbreaking to think I will have to do the whole separation thing more than likely and I should have did things different from the beginning -

I know some of our many Expert Trainers will respond to this, but Fridays & Weekends can be very SLOW here, so I'll reply for now until someone more qualified chimes in, even though I have No Expertise in these matters -- What I DID have is a Dog-Fight between my two adult Rescue Dobermans a few weeks ago ... It shook me up TERRIBLY (worse than it upset the dogs) because I was the one who should have been Alert Enough to have prevented it from ever happening, so I know how you & your husband FEEL

You already know to Never leave Treats or any other high-value items out for them to guard from one another, so I won't harp on that issue -- But I will point out one other thing, if I understand your post correctly ... Let me ask for clarification here: Was your husband out in the yard WITH the dogs when He SAT Down ???

I only ask this because my dogs got into their Dust-Up while I was SEATED and not paying enough attention to One MINOR Warning-Sign ... Just once about 5 days later was that same Warning-Sign ever repeated & it happened to be while I had both dogs out in the backyard together for a potty-break when I SAT Down in a lawn chair -- IMHO, sitting down at a time your good-sized dogs are standing up is NOT viewed by THEM as you Being in Authority, so if one is feeling inclined to Take Charge in a Power-Play then something as simple as you assuming a Subordinate Position (physically speaking) could trigger that one to take advantage in a display of "I'M the BOSS".

Also be aware that "master just got home time" and "going outside time" can typically rev-up any dogs to a Level of Excitement where they may be tempted to MISBEHAVE in releasing Pent-Up Energy or even Showing-Off to get more of your attention (as in sibling rivalry)...

Anyway, I put my two through a FULL Remedial Course of GROUNDWORK (Pack Structure Protocol) following their fight, and now I enforce ZERO TOLERANCE of Rough-Necking indoors AND outside -- I am also making darn sure that they do NOT get into each others Personal Space while I'm there ... When I go to work, these dogs have NEVER gotten into any tiffs, despite being Loose in the house Together all day long (I think they mostly just sleep & mind their own business while I'm gone) ... So hopefully you guys can nip your situation in the bud as well, before any life-long GRUDGES set in between the dogs !!! I don't know if my experience will help you or not, but BEST of LUCK

Thanks for responding Candi-
Yes my husband had just got home for lunch and went outside with them and sat on a bench outside to call me - so I bet you are on the right track with thinking that. Gracie especially is always super wound up when he gets home so that along with the chew chip could have took it over the top.

There are definitely some changes that need to be made with all of them as far as maintenance. Going to run Grace thru some groundwork as well, my husband treats her way to sweety sweet and I think he realized today that thats not a good thing. He is still shook up over it but I told him in order to move forward he will have to get over it and not be nervous with them.

Definite leashes on all and puppy hooked to me in the house for now, the puppy does harrass gracie alot with always trying to kiss her mouth etc and she does not like that.

Not sure how it will work outside, might just keep that separate for now and take it all slow

Thanks again, your situation sounds alot like what happen with us, I just want to make sure Jack doesnt get hurt in the process

I know nothing about Sharpei's.

Two of my dogs went on a crate and rotate schedule with 2 locked doors between the dogs that did not get along when their arguments got to the point of costing a vet bill. (Male shepherd and mix neutered male)

They both got along with the female in the house (male GSD's mother) but would try to take each other out if left alone. They were fine under command. They were NEVER left alone together.

Both dogs lived to 15 years old.

P.S. I am sure your puppy will be fine for obedience. Did he have any injuries? I had dogs get in a rip roaring battle, get cleaned up, and go to class like nothing happened. I think it bothers us more then them.

There is something to the owner sitting down, the dogs beginning to spar over resources.

It's hard to say if this is something that will continue but if you can't read your dogs like a book it's something the average pet owner may not be able to handle.

This shouldn't be a problem for competition obedience but will require a little extra work and as much time as possible doing the group sits and down in practice.

It sounds like food was the start of this particular fight and the puppy sound like it just may be a pia that Gracie doesn't want to put up with. Don't allow it!

The Sharpei was developed as a fighting dog so a simple trigger such as a piece of food can easily go beyond a simple "it's mine" situation.

There's a huge missing element in most people's integration protocol. And that is showing the animals that you control the OTHER animal.
People separate and train the dogs in the absence of the other dog.
Then, when they re integrate they dogs know that THEY should listen to the handler..... But they have no idea if the OTHER dog will listen to the handler. They have at best uneasy language (at worst complete regression), and this sets the whole thing in motion.
I use a lot of proximity work, but the real difference is in my use of training in front of the other dog.
You HAVE to make them realize that not only will they listen, but the OTHER dog will listen.
You can teach a dog all day that they "shouldn't" do something. But if they think they "have" to..... They will.
HAVE to convince them that not only are they not allowed to.... But there's no NEED to.
I have had really good results in some really tough situations with this.

Well said Jay.

In my almost 70 yrs I've rarely had less then 2-3 occasionally 4 dogs of my own, at the same time.

They have always been run together and not kenneled. That includes numerous terriers at one time and presently two intact male, working line GSDs that are together 24/7 outdoors.

Simply put, it's a management issue!

With my dogs, it was a dominance thing between the two males. Fine when I was there, fighting would occur when I was not present. I would never leave those two dogs alone together. They would be separated. When we were in a car, they were in crates. That was the management. They also could go to shows and to training and be on long sits and downs etc next to each other. Not a problem. I would never leave them alone together and I would not take the chance that eventually they out grew it. It was not worth the risk to me.

My shepherds were always working line. The mix was possibly a terrier mix. The mix breed was a great obedience dog...had scores consistently over 195/200. But he would not take $hit from other males. The mix was a relatively small dog (50 lbs) and neutered but never saw he could not mix it up with a huge male.

I have right now a female pit bull and a male GSD puppy. The puppy is crated in a closed room when I am not home. That is the way it will be. Both dogs get trained together and separately.

The rule in my house is we avoid vet bills, lawyer bills, and any other kind of bill. Some breeds I really would not take the chance (dachshunds with other small dogs, etc.) To me it is not worth the risk to come home to a dead or disabled dog.

Oh, I ALWAYS crate/separate dogs when I leave. Can't ask them to negotiate their own terms and be upset at how they do. You are either a director..... or a witness. So, yes.... When I leave. Dogs get crated.
I just mean that when I come home, they can be at liberty. THAT is my goal. the ability to navigate one another without being "under orders".
Can almost always get to where they can be managed together.
But many times can teach them how to be at liberty together. (when I'm there, not alone).
That's the goal.
Yeah.... coming home to the crime scene is a horror show. And.... totally avoidable.