Hello all,

Just watched the Michael Ellis dvd on the power of playing tug. I learned heaps, but i have an issue that remains in my training with my Amstaff.

He takes the tug with enthusiasm and outs on command. However, he does not return the toy, no matter how excited i make the situation. I never let him keep the toy at the end either.

I keep him on a leash when we play so he cant run. However, if i let him have the toy and move backwards, he simply drops his head to the floor with the toy, pins it down and bites it...he obviously doesnt see the game as me and him as much as he does the possession of the toy...

iv tried some very light encouragement on the leash to get his attention, but he still isnt interested in returning it....any ideas on how i can get him to engage with me once I release the toy?

I would suggest teaching a retrieve separate from the game, then eventually transition into the game and the toy being the reward for returning the toy.

With a dog that is refusing to return, backchaining might be the best method. Start by teaching the dog to "take" and "hold" the tug. You can even shape which position you want the dog in when you teach the hold. Once that is mastered, you can replace the take with short tosses. Start very short, keep the dog leashed as you are doing now, and add distance only as your dog shows compliance/competence. Eager compliance is desirable. When the dog is freely returning the tug, you can use the tugging game as reward for the bring and transition that into tug rewards for obedience.

how much food chasing play have you done with him ? it sometimes helps to pattern the idea of running out and returning to you using food first , and then introduce a toy .

also , the tug should be on a string , so that you control all aspects of the game until he gets it . . . and yes you spend a lot of time running backwards .

make sure your body language isn't " imposing " itself on him , that is , shoulders back .

don't give him the opportunity to hunker down with the toy on his own . with the toy on a string , as soon as you release it to him , immediately move backwards encouraging him with both his lead and the toys' string .

try an exchange of toy for food as well to see if that doesn't spark a change in behaviour .

you haven't said how old the dog is . i can see you are putting in a good effort on this , but don't let the behaviour continue . as long as he is allowed to self satisfy , things won't get better . if after a good effort on your part he doesn't want to play your way , take the toy away and end the game .

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Ill give those ideas a shot.

Ian- we have done lots of food chasing which he enjoys. He is currently 12 months old. Do you think i could use the flirt pole i have to keep him attached and encourage him to me?

Ive tried exchanging for food, but then his food drive takes over and it ends the tug game unfortunately.

I believe the key message i need to get across to him is that, engage with me or the game is no fun and it ends..

Ill keep persisting

Also, what are your thoughts on the application of leash pressure to work through his possessivness?
He does have have an understanding of leash pressure.

If the dog has more food drive then toy drive then use food as the primary reward.

In teaching the retrieve (with back chaining) I never make the dumbell a toy object OR a prey item.

It's nothing more then another object to bring to me for a reward.

Thanks Bob,

I will definitely keep food as my primary reward. my amstaff is a guts and loves it.

I suppose I wanted to just develop some rules around tug so I can have some play relationship without conflict. He can be a big lazy boy alot of the time.....which probably contributes to the whole situation

 Quote: ian bunbury

also , the tug should be on a string , so that you control all aspects of the game until he gets it . . . and yes you spend a lot of time running backwards .

This is key here. I spent a LOT of time running backwards encouraging my cattle dog to involve me in his play. Eventually he got it but I still tie short lines on all his toys in case he has a "screw you" day. When you go outside breeds that are bred to work with humans it takes a lot more effort to insert yourself into their play.

I did zero distance at first. I just sort of released the toy and immediately moved back encouraging him to bring the toy back to me. It was a few weeks before I first actually tossed the toy.

Thanks Cathy,

I also suspect that im fighting against genetics here. He definitely seems like he prefers to kill and shred the toys into a million pieces than interact in a game of tug haha.

Nonetheless, it is a challenge for both of us and if we can move past it, it will be the biggest breakthrough in our training and bonding that we have had over the past 12 months.

When I adopted my mature GSD, I had to develop her drives, including her desire to play tug. Once she won the tug, she wanted to take the tug and keep it. The "brrring" command changed the game entirely. She quickly learned that bringing the tug back was a rewardable behavior.