Hello!! My first post here and I would like to ask for some guidance.

I have a 7 months old german shepherd being trained for home/family protection. The trainer teaches me how to traing the dog and eventually trains himself when I´m doing something wrong. Since I watched Michael Ellis videos and how he trains based on motivation, I started questioning some of the trainer´s methods.

He stablished a routine where the dog stays on the kennel from 8 to 11 am and from 2 to 5 pm and should not have contact with people from outside the family during the training period. So, when the dog does something wrong... like jumping, biting our hands etc and doesnt stop after correction ("no" command) we send it to the kennel. I noticed that the puppy really enjoys staying with people and is having some anxiety issues when stays away from us. So my doubt is that I dont want to mess with the "proper" training because of the familys unconditional love for the dog. I think the dog needs to have limits, but also don´t want to impose unnecessary things.

Yesterday the trainer was about to start an obedience training where he gets the puppy out of the kennel and does an off-leash walking training. The dog didn´t want to follow him and gave some small bites on his hands. The first time the dog bit he said "no", the second time he pulled his mouth away, and the third time the dog bit his hand he pinched the dogs tongue! Just to make clear, its not an agressive dog, he was like playing. I questioned him if he wasn´t supposed to motivate the dog instead of making it afraid to bite, and the trainer answered that a protection dog must respect the owner and have clear limits, or it could lose control on the advanced training. But I still dont agree with that kind of correction. My only experience is from the example on the DVDs... but both are for Schutz training, not specifically protection training, so I don´t know if that really is a different case. He argues that its his method and positive reinforcement only doesnt work for protection dogs.

If anyone could help, I´d really appreciate! Thank you!
(Sorry for the bad english. Btw, Im based in Brazil)

so what are you doing with the dog when he is not in the kennel ?

I do some short training sessions, take it for a walk (on leash) 2 times a day and the rest of the time the dog just rests or sleeps around me in my office, wich is outside the house.

I have been helping with Protection and Sport dogs for only a few years. I would suspect, based on my albeit limited exposure, that very few protection trainers would advocate P+ only. Also, even though I am a fan and follower of ME, It occurs to me that his primary focus is weighted more heavily towards sport dogs, and the protection phase of their given sport, than he is towards PP digs. JMO. Ian may correct me if I am mistaken; he has just attended an advanced training course at ME's school.

Based solely on your description of the situation you are in with your dog, you may be asking something of a dog but unwittingly setting him up to fail. Although many PP dogs will accept and settle in with a family, you are ultimately asking him to go against his instincts and protect his pack leader. You will also be asking the dog to evaluate situations differently than many canines naturally would, but to react in a conditioned manner. That means you will be conditioning the dog AND YOURSELF to react in situations that you can only marginally prepare for.

All that to say that, were it me in your shoes, I would default to the professional, even if I didn't understand his methoods. I wouldn't do any outside training that countermanded his instruction, for both the dog AND YOU.

If you are uncomfortable with the trainer, his credentials, or his reputation, research and seek another. However, if you are not an experienced PP handler, I think you should apply your energy to finding a reputable trainer and follow his lead.

"Pinches the dog's tongue."

I would not personally allow ANYONE to be correcting a puppy of mine like that or any other way.

I agree with Duane on finding another PP trainer.

The HUGE problem with that is I believe there are very few that knows what they are doing.

Most are just "beat em till they bite" trainers and PP goes a LONG way past that.

I believe the foundation of ALL puppies/young dogs should start with play/prey training.

Teaching the dog respect is all about getting the dog's confidence in you through leadership and maintenance, not power.

"AS THEY MATURE" a good trainer will add pressure/stress on the dog to bring out it's defensive strengths.

To much pressure to early makes a dog fearful and that's a dangerous dog to be around. aka a fear biter.

I will also add that many dogs can be taught to bite. It takes a special mindset in a dog to protect and not just bite out of fear.

It's as much about correct genetics as it is training.

Thank you, that clears my mind!

From ME vids, he has said that he does not correct to a bite in initial training and just ignores it.

 Quote: Renato Saab

Yesterday the trainer was about to start an obedience training where he gets the puppy out of the kennel and does an off-leash walking training. The dog didn´t want to follow him and gave some small bites on his hands.

That would be a red flag to me right there. Yes, sometimes pups get it into their heads to do their own thing but most 7 month old pups should be all over the trainer pushing to interact. Avoidance at his age would make me seriously reconsider what's being done in the name of "protection training".

Amen!
A 7 month old puppy should be dragging the handler to get on the field.

Run as far & as fast as you can from that so called PP trainer. He is going to ruin your dog!

Puppy bite development should be all prey/play oriented. Starting with a rag to a puppy bite pillow/wedge to a puppy sleeve & as dog developes to a bite suit &/or hard sleeve & a hidden sleeve so the dog does not become equipment oriented. Also no bite work while teething. Pup should be happy & the 'game' should be fun for the pup. Like Bob said the pup should drag you out to play the 'game'.

As stated above, no stress added until dog has some mental maturity. Working a dog in defense needs to be done carefully & properly or you will destroy your dog.

Dogs that CAN do & are trained to due TRUE protection work are a different cut of the cloth so to speak than the usual dog & akin to having a loaded gun. Be careful what you wish for.

This is all very basic starting point information.