Harry and I are a perfect match walking, nice pace, great focus.
The kids were off for 4 days from school, so they had to join us on a walk. He went psycho. With a prong he self steers, with a prong and kids, he pronged himself, and than he attacked me, the leash and the leash clip, because the kids went ahead. So I told them walk behind, to which he again attacked the leash. So I switched the prong to a gentle leader, so he couldn't bite, which helped, but his focus us so bad when the kids are outside, this includes the yard, that he will non stop bark, whine and lunge. I have zero issues in the house.
He absolutely refuses play, and we do stop walking the minute he acts up, but we cannot separate our walk towhere the kids are having fun in the snow. He cannot be off leash, as we are in the midst of car chasing training. My son is not strong enough to handle a large pushy 4 month old pup. My daughter has corrected him for jumping. And when we are beside them he figures out they suck and I rock, but put a few feet btwn us and all bets are off.
Taking him to town would be a disaster. As he acts like you are beating him if he sees someone walking and ignoring him.
Yes I marker train. But I don't think shoveling treats in his face constantly will fix this. And the idiots in town that would help won't stop him from jumping or mouthing. Help me correct this the right way please!
The kids are not involved with the rearing anymore, the new pup thing wore off fast when the realized work was involved. They only go as far as keeping him from biting and jumping, which I supervise.
So summing it all up. I pretty much need him to ignore people. And my kids playing.

 Quote: Becky Niedbalka

Harry and I are a perfect match walking, nice pace, great focus.
The kids were off for 4 days from school, so they had to join us on a walk. He went psycho. With a prong he self steers, with a prong and kids, he pronged himself, and than he attacked me, the leash and the leash clip, because the kids went ahead. So I told them walk behind, to which he again attacked the leash. So I switched the prong to a gentle leader, so he couldn't bite, which helped, but his focus us so bad when the kids are outside, this includes the yard, that he will non stop bark, whine and lunge. I have zero issues in the house.
He absolutely refuses play, and we do stop walking the minute he acts up, but we cannot separate our walk towhere the kids are having fun in the snow. He cannot be off leash, as we are in the midst of car chasing training. My son is not strong enough to handle a large pushy 4 month old pup. My daughter has corrected him for jumping. And when we are beside them he figures out they suck and I rock, but put a few feet btwn us and all bets are off.
Taking him to town would be a disaster. As he acts like you are beating him if he sees someone walking and ignoring him.
Yes I marker train. But I don't think shoveling treats in his face constantly will fix this. And the idiots in town that would help won't stop him from jumping or mouthing. Help me correct this the right way please!
The kids are not involved with the rearing anymore, the new pup thing wore off fast when the realized work was involved. They only go as far as keeping him from biting and jumping, which I supervise.
So summing it all up. I pretty much need him to ignore people. And my kids playing.

Becky, first of all, I am NOT any kind of Pro trainer:

But in an overly stimulating scenario, it seems like the PRONG revs Harry up even More -- I would use a Dominant Dog collar on him at times like that ... My bitch gets too Wound-Up when strange dogs pass near our property, but "taking her air away" with a DD collar has Taught her NOT to Act Up when I tell her "NO".

I tried that, before the halti. He outvrew my smaller one and the other one i have is too big.
And I hate the halti, hate forced focus.
I will pop a slip lead on him until he grows into the bigger d's collar.
Thanks for that info Candi! To bad I just purchased a new Sprenger. Tho it works great when it is just me. Knock on wood!
Tourist season is around the corner, so this needs fixing soon! 3 months is my time limit. Seems funny I was just whining about too much focus. Never even thought of adding the kids being an issue.

 Quote: Becky Niedbalka

The kids had to join us on a walk, and Harry went psycho ... He pronged himself, and than attacked me -- Taking him to town would be a disaster, as he acts like you are beating him if he sees someone walking and ignoring him.

Further clarification would be Helpful:

1) Given that Harry is just a 4 month old Puppy, does he merely want to PLAY with or HERD your Kids (I'm assuming these "attacks"are NOT re-directed Aggression, is that right?) -- Have you raised Pups from HERDING breeds before?

2) I don't understand your statement that: Harry acts like you are Beating him if he sees someone else who's walking & ignoring him.

Thanks for posting more details

Great questions! I tend to ramble!

1. The attacks are directed at the leash, and my arm. So basically to what is holding him back. He is a herder, outside, and that is what I need to distract him from . He redirects his frustration on me, the leash, anything he can get his teeth on,when he hits the end if the lead due to not being able to jump, climb and paw at the kids, or so he tries, they stop him, but he is persistent.
When we do stop him, he whines. Even on the flexie, with plenty of space btwn us and them, he will ping pong on the leash to get to them.
2. When he hits the end. He screams, squeals, barks, basically throwing the biggest temper tantrum that you can think of. If anything passes by like the cars, He does the same, but I can turn around and go in the opposite direction of the vehicle. He than follows, but has to keep looking back and attempting to turn back. With the kids playing, I do the same, but the focus is still to the kids, the barking and clawing at me does not stop. That is where I am at a loss.

I have tried the treats, but when he knows the kids are there, he won't look at me right away, and when he gets the reward for looking at me, or dong a sit, he is off after them again.Here it is unsafe for me to leave them outside and step too far away, due to the wildlife. It is hard enough to lug around the 303, a shoulder sack with the bear banger, and a fighting pup, without worrying about a pack of wolves or a wolverine attacking the kids. When he pulls the tantrums. We stop where we are and become trees, but he really does not settle.
I will follow any game plan to a T that anyone gives me! I want to do this right. The first time, before he is 100lbs.
Sorry if I rambled again!

I have raised 2 pyrs, one full breed, one mix, and a border terrier. I also had a long time ago, a Rhodesian/lab/rott. He was very dog aggressive, but was manageable on leash.

There is no aggression towards the kids or me for that matter, when we are all within a few feet of each other. The aggression is for the correction he us giving himself at the end of the leash. Our bodies to him are trampolines at this age.
We walks for an hour or more a day, and half of it is splitting up free flexie walks, and practicing beside me when on the main rural road.

With the way he follows me around everywhere, I feel in the home he is getting separation anxiety. If I move even to stretch, he is up and joining me. If I move through any room. He is following me, no matter what you or goodie he is chewing on. I crate him when I have to go into any other room, do that he can't go into bedrooms or the bathroom.
Funny, in my butt at home, wants to ditch my butt outdoors, lol.

Not at all a fan of the halti. It does nothing more then "control" the head and not a thing for training. JMO

Work obedience with the kids in sight but at a distance far enough that they aren't a distraction.

Over time move closer till you still have control with them up close.

You can then put the kids back a distance and then add movement.

work your way in again till you can work the dog close with the kids being active.

I agree with the halti opinion. I have prev used them only for bike riding.
I will start my marker training tmrw in the yard, before he kids come out, get him amped with the treats, toss a tug in the mix, and have the kids come out after a bit, and see what his level is at. Than I can go from there, to see what my distance can be.
The yard is our only safe zone, unless we go 2km to the river. But I don't trust it with the amount MB hydro had been letting through.
Plus better home first road later? Right?

Thanks Bob. And since the kids leave Fri on a dad visit, I can continue on the weekend with Jim as a distraction as practice!
Today with grooming I had my 11 yr old join in, to help hold him in various positions that he needs to go in for potential de matting. It was a chore, but we got it done plus nails.
I have to keep reminding the kids, he is a family boy, a baby, and does deserve attention for what he does right with them. They are so un-doggy they just walk around like he is not here, which must be incredibly frustrating for Harry.
I can thank their dad, he keeps coaching then that cats are the better pet. Life there will not be missed. He was always jealous of the times I spent with my pyr mix.