I'm a fairly new dog person, with a 18 month BCX (bit of everything, roughly 30kg/66lb working sheep dog stock). I've got some of Michael's vids and read a lot on training but am still learning the ropes, and with this dog it is a bit like learning to drive in a Ferrari. Things are going generally well but there are a couple of behaviours I'd like some advice on so that I follow the general hippocratic principle of 'first do no harm' to the training already in place. She is very toy motivated. I'm not on a farm but she gets a lot of exercise and other contact.
First, the recall. She is 100% rock solid on this ... until a competing motivator takes over and then she switches mode from 'attentive' to 'deaf', and takes quite a bit of time to switch back. At the beach this is generally bird chasing but even absent birds is not great if she has decided she is having a good time on her own. Separation anxiety seems very low. I've got a beep/buzz/zap collar (not really used as yet) - is that the best direction for herding dogs? I see advice around aversive and motivational methods but also disclaimers that say working dogs are different.
And second is guarding behaviours. On the leash and at the kennel she walks quite happily and interacts very socially with other dogs in a polite and submissive manner. But around her ball she switches mode and would happily take on a pitbull (at least in snappy attitude). She's an only-dog and also imagines cats and seagulls are after her stuff. I can exercise her without the ball but find it is a very powerful way to hold her attention. The material I've found on guarding is generally about dog on dog re food, so haven't seen any good approaches to this specific situation. But I expect many of you have been down this road before and I'm keen to learn effective approaches to it.

Thanks
Terry

Sounds like you have an awesome pup! I will leave this to the pros, but will follow !
I have a Old English Sheepdog myself!

We have a member here who is very experienced with border collies; however, she has not been active in a while, so I don't know if she even checks in with the board anymore. For some reason, I am unable to send PMs, but maybe another member here will reach out to her.

I have no experience with Border Collies, but I know they are a very energetic and active breed.

What you write about the recall seems to me to be valid for every dog, though of course more difficult with certain breeds and individuals.

With two of my dogs I have now a rocksolid recall too, but only UNTIL ..., as you are mentioning. The beach is awfull even when they're on-leash. Not because of people and other dogs, but because of the crabs!

I think this is all because a dog can easily be overwhelmed with distractions.
LB offers a good DVD about the recall, http://leerburg.com/dog-training-recall.htm.

A very good one is also Engagement Skills by Forrest Micke. About how to keep a dog's focus on us in the presence of distractions : http://leerburg.com/EngagementDVD.htm

Hope that might help.

BCs have an almost obsessive drive and hard to compared with any breed.

At the same time once they understand marker training they excel in most anything.

Terry, with the dog loosing control sounds like the distractions are way to strong for the level of training.

The distractions have to be kept at a distance and sloooowly close the distances until the dog adjusts to the distraction that triggers the lack of control.

As to e-collars being used in herding I've seen folks that do it but IMHO the dog's natural instincts are blocked.

The BCs are usually loaded with herding instincts from the get go.

You just need to find a good herding instructor

I herded with my GSD and when I started he had numerous other titles but sheep and ducks could bring out a drive not even seen in his Schutzhund trials.

Find someone that can teach you how to control that drive and instincts.

The Old English was bred more as a herd guarding dog then a herder but they can herd with training.

If the dog is so possessive over the ball is so strong around other dogs then I would only use the ball as a reward in marker training.

The ball belongs to YOU and not the dog so don't let him have it when not training.

I've got 60+ yrs of dog training under my belt and when I discovered marker training 13-14 yrs ago it was a an eye opener.

I've got a pretty large dog training library of books and videos going back to the 50s and none compare with the Michael Ellis stuff.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

... For some reason, I am unable to send PMs ...

Hi, Cheri,

I just sent you a PM about this. You can send me an email if you don't get the PM (although I don't think there will be a problem).

The ball is an interesting one and heavily context dependent. At the beach it has the power of food, sex and oxygen all rolled into one, but in the back yard she doesn't care much at all. But even at the beach she is 100% on it or 100% off it and the attention is like a light switch. I think I need to work on some play behaviours that translate between environments better.
We have started crating her again (she was crated as a puppy but we moved off that) and keeping her restrained most of the time which seems to be improving her active focus greatly. I'll look into the engagement stuff more because when she's engaged she's fully attentitive and eager to please.

With the herding I meant a herding breed as opposed to training her to herd. She's a mixture of BC and NZ Huntaway (to New Zealand what the Blue Heeler is to Australia). Legendary stamina and smart with it. Just a bit of a struggle at times to curb that enthusiasm.

Thanks for the clarification on the "breed."

The breeds in there are great for training but I "think" the NZ Huntaway is more long range with a powerful voice.

I stil think the marker training with Ellis is great for ANY breed. Especially one with a dog that has all that "enthusiasm".

I will also stress my point on adding distractions slowly and not add more until the dog is solid at a the present distance.