Hey everyone,

I'm a new breeder, and I have a couple of questions about my dam. She's a 3 year old GSD from Czech & DDR working lines. She weighs about 70 lbs. There were 8 pups in her litter.

I've bred her twice so far. Her first litter was 4 pups total, but 1 still born. Her second litter was 2 total pups, 1 still born. In both cases of the still-borns, the amniotic sac burst in the canal, so the pup suffocated during birth. The still born pups looked healthy and fully developed otherwise. Her gestation period was within normal limits and delivery of the healthy pups was normal.

I have 2 questions.

1. After the first still-born I did some research and learned that this sometimes happens, so I assumed it was just a fluke. Now that it's happened twice I'm more concerned. Do any of you have experience with this?

2. Any thoughts on the small litter sizes? I expected her first litter to be small, but was hoping for more with the second.

Thanks in advance.

 Quote: Joel Smith

Hey everyone,

I'm a new breeder, and I have a couple of questions about my dam. She's a 3 year old GSD from Czech & DDR working lines. She weighs about 70 lbs. There were 8 pups in her litter.

I've bred her twice so far. Her first litter was 4 pups total, but 1 still born. Her second litter was 2 total pups, 1 still born. In both cases of the still-borns, the amniotic sac burst in the canal, so the pup suffocated during birth. The still born pups looked healthy and fully developed otherwise. Her gestation period was within normal limits and delivery of the healthy pups was normal.

I have 2 questions.

1. After the first still-born I did some research and learned that this sometimes happens, so I assumed it was just a fluke. Now that it's happened twice I'm more concerned. Do any of you have experience with this?

2. Any thoughts on the small litter sizes? I expected her first litter to be small, but was hoping for more with the second.

Thanks in advance.

Just my 2 cents worth, but I would not breed a bitch for the 1st time before she was already 3 years old -- What was her age at the previous breeding, and how much time did you let her rest & recover prior to the second breeding? This reminds me somewhat of a co-worker who bred her too-young Great Dane bitch on back-to-back heat cycles ... Both litters were typically large (10 whelps each time) but they ALL died before weaning, except ONE from the second go-round

A lot of things can affect litter size - age of the bitch, age of the male, duration of each tie, number of ties, cycle of the moon and the brightness of the stars.....

If the same male was used I would have a sample tested for virility. And if you just left them together, I would make sure the next breeding is observed- we never just left dogs together. Leerburg breedings were always done on leash or AI... It made for interesting conversation when asked what i did at work that day...

We always attended each whelping- if there is a problem at least you are there to help a pup in distress.... And you can bring one back that isn't breathing at birth - I have done it several times. If you aren't there though you can't save them. The sack breaking early can be just an inexperienced bitch not pushing hard or long enough- if you are there you can pull the pup before it suffocates.

We never bred back to back - it takes too much out of the bitch - even just a small litter. Keep her healthy- her health is your priority- she is the foundation of your breeding program ....

Keep the whelping room quiet and stress free for the last two weeks before due date. Stress- even just noise can be stressful to a mom to be- can affect the whelping in a negative way and result in problems.

Strangers were not allowed any where near the kennel if we had a litter on the way. Even kennel staff were not allowed in the whelping room the last two weeks or the first week after.

Make sure she gets a good healthy diet- and plenty of food- she will need more to eat as she puts more of her energy into the pups... Both before and after whelping.

There is so much that goes into successful breeding and whelping... Literally tons of books and videos on it and the only thing 2 breeders can ever agree on is how wrong the third guy is doing it.

Make sure you are breeding for the right reasons- to better the breed. The good breeders are not in it for the money....

A very long winded 2 cents- take it for what it is.

Well said Kelly!

 Quote: Bob Scott

Well said Kelly!

And "what Bob said" TOO

Great eye opener, Kelly.Though I'ain in a age, I will certainly not try to be a breeder ,It is a good knowledge to know about this; When we bought our Pits, we were at least adviced by a Vet. He confirmed that these two dogs were healthy, but he of course couldn'r tell us anihting about the breed and the line. He reproached the owner though, not to have fed the mother enough and with the cheapest kibble; It is likely that 6 of 11 died of this. Ours were perhaps more assertive or stromger than the other ones;

The owner offered us to give us a pedigree for a third pf the price more.But we rejected, as we knew that a pedigree here wpuld mean nothing at all. We still think, that Socks maybe is not a pure Pi,, that another male might have been involved. She is so different in temperamet and looks. Butnow it's simply a possible fact and we don't bother about it.. It is true what you said: lots are just "made" because of money.

I do think, if someone wants a pure breed and wants to know something about the line, he should really be an expert himself or ask the advice of one.

Your comenrt, Kelly, isn't worth just two "lonwinded" two cents! Thanks a lot, though for myself it doesn't change anymore anything, but a bit of more knowledge can always be transmitted to other people. Let's hope.

Thanks for the comments everyone, and Kelly especially. I appreciate your thoroughness and it agrees with what I've read and seen in other places.

You mentioned that you've helped many pups start to breathe. My wife and I watched the Leerburg whelping DVD where that's discussed, and even though we tried for several minutes with our pups, we couldn't help them.

Could you tell me more about you have done that?

I am not sure anymore what is in the video - I think ed does the swing method to clear the lungs - which is the best way to do that. Once i've cleared the lungs the best i can, I've cupped my hand around the puppy's muzzle and given a few quick short breaths into the hand which will go into the nostrils- Purse my lips and give the puppy the air that is there in my mouth-kind of like making a "puh" sound -no more than that. Think of the size of those tiny little lungs and don't give too much air too forcefully. My hand is usually fairly loose so that most of the air that I pass won't make it to the pup - this is so I don't give too much and hurt the pup. You get a feel for it after a while (you can practice by placing your other hand where the puppy will be and feel how much air gets through and how much force you are using). Also rub the puppy vigorously after the breaths.

Once i get a puppy breathing, I will hold it head down for a few minutes in case there is any more liquid that needs to drain out - if there is bubbling at the nostrils I may tap the puppy's back lightly with two fingers to help clean out the lungs. Rubbing the belly vigorously gets the blood moving - they will typically squeak at this point and you can give them to mom to get cleaned up and eat.

The above is what I found works for me- others may use other methods. After a few litters you will find some methods that will work for you. The main thing is to learn how to recognize when a pup is in distress and will need help- the sooner you can get to it, the more likely you are to save it.

You really don't have a lot of time to work with, and some pups you just can't bring back- it's sad but it happens. I cried my eyes out when I lost my first pup- and I cried tears of joy when I brought my first one back.

Best of luck!!

Thanks again for the info! If this happens again, I'll try your method.